[NFP] Things you wish Firaxis had never changed

[acluewithout]

Any thoughts on balance changes that actually made the game worse and or less interesting?

Looking at the October 2020 Patch - which seems like a total shower - but also changes from any of the previous game updates and patches.

I don’t think there are too many clangers, but there are a few.

• Spies and Alliances. No spies in Allies is a terrible change. You can find my thoughts here and here. Honestly, this could have been a perfectly fine change if Firaxis had just made this something you could toggle on or off in the game option menu.

• Lumbermills and River Adjacencies. I always feel on my own with this one, but getting rid of River Adjacencies for Lumbermills was a terrible change. I mean, I like that Lumbermills got buffed as did production generally. But there was a fun little mini-game trying to get Mills on Rivers. I’d love to see this adjacency come back, e.g. +1 Production at Square Rigging if adjacenct to a River.

• Shipyards +1 to Unimproved Coastal Tiles. I still don’t get this. Build Shipyard. Get +1 Production. Build Fishing Boat. Lose +1 Production. Research Colonialism. Get back +1 Production. Like, what the actual is going on there?

• Amenities. The Amenities changes were so close to being a good change, but then FXS sort of borked the change by making “Content” range to -1 Happiness. Just such an odd choice.

• Envoys. I would have added the nerf to Mercantile Envoy bonuses in the last patch, but thankfully this has been reversed out now.
  
  
• Nerfing Pax Britannica. I miss the original Pax B. Those free Red Coats where a Hoot. Capturing Cities and getting more +10 Melee Units felt like you were a English Colonial Era Borg. Resistance is quite discouraged. I think overall things ended up ok, but honestly that was a mess for about a year.

Thoughts?

Any other balances changes people think Firaxis just plain got wrong?

 

[Archon_Wing]

But you can still declare war on allied city states!

As for the rest, most aren't just from the October patch?

 

[The googles do nothing]

mini games should get larger influence in balancing decisions. Playing Pirates has really reminded me of how fun that part of the game can be. There have been several mini games added balance changes which really improved the game. IZ adjacencies and Norway pillaging economy are my two favorites.

I don't know if it's considered a 'balance' change but the new strategic resource system made the game less fun for me. It's not really a mini game when part of the time you just randomly win the horse lotto in your capital and the other part you need to scout them out, send out settler, get the tile then finally improve it.

 

[acluewithout]

As for the rest, most aren't just from the October patch?

I meant from the October 2020 patch or any other patches. I’ve clarified in the OP.

the new strategic resource system made the game less fun for me.

I really like the Strategic Resource System, up to the Renaissance. Then it goes wonky.

• Too many things need Niter. Also, while I’m ok with Niter being a map dependent resource, I wish the game could somehow give a nod to Niter being something you can actually manufacture (eg maybe some buildings can generate a little Niter.

• Infantry and Tanks both requiring Oil is problematic. In principle, I’m ok with Infantry needing Oil (the way eg Swords and Knights both use Iron), but the implementation is somehow off.

• Helicopters needing Aluminium doesn’t work. Copters should use Oil or be resource free.

 

[Askia Muhammad]

Any thoughts on balance changes that actually made the game worse and or less interesting?

Looking at the October 2020 Patch - which seems like a total shower - but also changes from any of the previous game updates and patches.

I don’t think there are too many clangers, but there are a few.

• Spies and Alliances. No spies in Allies is a terrible change. You can find my thoughts here and here. Honestly, this could have been a perfectly fine change if Firaxis had just made this something you could toggle on or off in the game option menu.

• Lumbermills and River Adjacencies. I always feel on my own with this one, but getting rid of River Adjacencies for Lumbermills was a terrible change. I mean, I like that Lumbermills got buffed as did production generally. But there was a fun little mini-game trying to get Mills on Rivers. I’d love to see this adjacency come back, e.g. +1 Production at Square Rigging if adjacenct to a River.

• Shipyards +1 to Unimproved Coastal Tiles. I still don’t get this. Build Shipyard. Get +1 Production. Build Fishing Boat. Lose +1 Production. Research Colonialism. Get back +1 Production. Like, what the actual is going on there?

• Amenities. The Amenities changes were so close to being a good change, but then FXS sort of borked the change by making “Content” range to -1 Happiness. Just such an odd choice.

• Envoys. I would have added the nerf to Mercantile Envoy bonuses in the last patch, but thankfully this has been reversed out now.
  
  
• Nerfing Pax Britannica. I miss the original Pax B. Those free Red Coats where a Hoot. Capturing Cities and getting more +10 Melee Units felt like you were a English Colonial Era Borg. Resistance is quite discouraged. I think overall things ended up ok, but honestly that was a mess for about a year.

Thoughts?

Any other balances changes people think Firaxis just plain got wrong?

didn’t agree with Hungary nerf

 

[Lily_Lancer]

The scaling on pillage yields. They never fixed this, they never played with those lovely free cities, rebelling again and again, yielding thousands of gold and faith every 2 turns...

 

[Equilin]

I miss IZ stacking everywhere...

 

[Myomoto]

I meant from the October 2020 patch or any other patches. I’ve clarified in the OP.



I really like the Strategic Resource System, up to the Renaissance. Then it goes wonky.

• Too many things need Niter. Also, while I’m ok with Niter being a map dependent resource, I wish the game could somehow give a nod to Niter being something you can actually manufacture (eg maybe some buildings can generate a little Niter.

• Infantry and Tanks both requiring Oil is problematic. In principle, I’m ok with Infantry needing Oil (the way eg Swords and Knights both use Iron), but the implementation is somehow off.

• Helicopters needing Aluminium doesn’t work. Copters should use Oil or be resource free.

I think infantry should stop consuming oil, however the Supply Convoy support unit should consume oil.

 

[iammaxhailme]

I completely forgot about river lumber mills, but yes, those were great, logical, they should come back.

Especially for Canada!

 

[MrRadar]

Yes, I miss more productive lumbermills on the rivers.
Then I miss Factory AOE stacking everywhere, without needing Magnus promotion.

But one small thing I miss most is the so called 'tile raiding': the possibility to swap tiles in occupied cities before war was done. What a negative fun change was that! What were they thinking?

 

[pkaem]

I don't like that after classical area there is no way to effectively go to War, frigates and pillaging asides. You can always plunder your opponent or get him down when He is costal, but no inland City conquest, because auf walls. Bombards are crap. So either navy or wait till bombers. I Was more fun to me when you were able to get cities down with rams and knights. At least buff the bombards.

 

[leandrombraz]

As someone who avoids eliminating the AI and that often gives cities back to them, I miss being able to switch tiles to my own cities before I return it, so I keep the tiles. It was a nice way to hurt the AI without taking cities. I was disappointed to see that they consider it an exploit. For me, it was a nice feature.

 

[Zaarin]

I agree about lumber mill river adjacencies. It made sense.

 

[Sostratus]

I agree about lumber mill river adjacencies. It made sense.

They effectively changed lumbermills from +1, +1 if river to a universal +2.

I actually dislike the balance between mines and lumbermills. They don’t seem distinct enough to me in their use cases once you have unlocked the mill.

 

[8housesofelixir]

I actually dislike the balance between mines and lumbermills. They don’t seem distinct enough to me in their use cases once you have unlocked the mill.

Also, this makes a lumbermill on a hill alone has a production output larger than a Workshop. Sounds right.

 

[iammaxhailme]

They effectively changed lumbermills from +1, +1 if river to a universal +2.

I actually dislike the balance between mines and lumbermills. They don’t seem distinct enough to me in their use cases once you have unlocked the mill.

Honestly, I always thought Mines should be like quarries. They should only go where there is a resource. What are you mining on a no-resource tile? Dirt?

Lumber Mills should give 2x the production of chopping the tile over a period of, say, 30 turns and then the woods is gone, as if it was chopped. Then you can farm the land or whatever.

 

[Zaarin]

What are you mining on a no-resource tile? Dirt?

Sand mining is actually extremely important for the production of concrete, but desert sand is unsuitable. It has to be beach sand.

 

[Josephias]

Honestly, I always thought Mines should be like quarries. They should only go where there is a resource. What are you mining on a no-resource tile? Dirt?

There is plenty of other metals that can be mined outside of the ones present as resources in the game. If any, it is the point you can not quarry hills (as also there are different types of stone that can be used) what is odd (I'd say it is more usual to quarry than to mine).

Lumber Mills should give 2x the production of chopping the tile over a period of, say, 30 turns and then the woods is gone, as if it was chopped. Then you can farm the land or whatever.

I've to object, as that would be a micro headache. Unless there is a pretty early (medieval) tech (forestry) that makes the same lumbermills renew the forests. (Indeed, it's supposed lumbermills represent that: the continuous exploitation/management of the forest, vs chopping that is a quick but not renewable source of production)

 

[Swissy]

The rescaling of experience points in online speed. It makes having multiple barb camps in a multiplayer game a huge handicap. The way it was before the last patch, you could reasonably contain barbs with one fortified warrior. Now, you get one near by camp, you may have delayed expansion. You get two, good luck getting your golden age and having any real chance of being competitive.

 

[Victoria]

Giving you a choice of a land or sea route for traders... oh wait they never did this.

The change in expansion delivery is one for me.
I bought something before I knew what it was, my papa said to never do this.