This game is great in that it can be tremendously addictive, and fun. It's bad in that it misses key concepts that could perfect it, which hinders all other aspects of the game. I hate how people defend Civ V for saying 'remeber civ IV Vanilla?' Well my question is, why can't they get the vanilla right. Is it because they know they can make more money by making an unfinished game, and selling expansion packs for more money... of course it is. I'm calling Civ out for selling out, it's not about creating a great game as much as it's about the money, It wasn't always like that....
This game is both Great and Bad at the same time
- Thread starter amboo
- Start date
Lord Tirian
Erratic Poster
...because the only way to ensure that is either year-long playtesting which would make it impossible it publish or cutting back on innovation? It's not selling out, it's staying in business. The alternative would mean no game at all or sequels that are essentially the last game with better graphics and minor tweaks. Would that be better?
Besides, different tastes. Some people will always dislike it.
Cheers, LT.
You're calling a business company out for being profit seeking? Forget "selling out" a business cannot "sell out" unless they're non-profit.
And besides, if they held the game back before it was perfect people would just have to wait a long time like I've been doing with Diablo 3. A decade and counting waiting on that game...
EmpireOfCats
Death to Giant Robots
To be fair, Blizzard is still releasing free updates and patches for Diablo 2. Note the word "free", not some DLC they want money for. Blizzard may take a long time with each game, but when it does come out, they really deliver.
Lord Tirian
Erratic Poster
They have WoW as revenue source, though, so they are financially able to take their time. So if you want the perfect vanilla, you'd need to support more constant revenue sources for Firaxis. Like CivNetwork... and the reaction from the fanbase here wasn't the most inspired one, no?
Cheers, LT.
bernlin2000
Prince
Nah, it's not excuse to release an unfinished game: If a feature isn't finished it should either be finished or removed, not left in a half-baked state (like a number of features are in CiV). It's been 5 years since CivIV came out, it's hard to believe lack of time was an issue.
r_rolo1
King of myself
If you were to wait for Civ IV to be finished for deliver civ V, you would still had to wait atleast some years , because civ IV is still not finished. WTF, even civ III is still with bugs to solve officially 
on top of that they have had 4 civs + expansions to learn how to balance stuff and create civilizations. Seems they somehow forgot a bunch of civilizations from previous games existed -_-
Normally you learn from your past. they are acting like this is a new and untested concept never done before -_-
After the rust storm patch (think that was .10 or whatever) there was really not much need for the further patching IMO. Not to say the earlier patches weren't definitely appreciated, but my point is more that a lot of people (myself included) complain about how ridiculously long the wait on Diablo 3 was/is.
I would rather get D3 with some quirks than not have it at all. But, given that Civ V is out first I'll be playing that instead now.... Basically, whichever came out first was the one I was going to dedicate my life to for the next 5 years.
As such, there's going to have to be a balance between maintaining a good reputation and getting the next iteration of a series out quickly. I'd say Blizzard is obviously on the one extreme of holding reputation before all else, and I'd say Firaxis could give a sh-- about its reputation based on how buggy its games are upon release.
exactly, this is a good game don't get me wrong, but we know they are better than this.
Of course. They already did it with the pre-order bonus with the Babylonians. If it was already finished, why isn't it included in the game?
There are definitely aspects I wouldn't expect Firaxis to know about.
The slow running on certain machines is one....internally they probably only can playtest it on so many configurations.
However, there are certain things that are sloppy. The fact the automated explores go through city states for example. That one occurs so early and often I can't believe their QA team wouldn't have noticed that.
The slow running on certain machines is one....internally they probably only can playtest it on so many configurations.
However, there are certain things that are sloppy. The fact the automated explores go through city states for example. That one occurs so early and often I can't believe their QA team wouldn't have noticed that.
ElephantRider
Chieftain
That does seem to be what a lot of people want...
It is a matter of practicality. Once of the defining things of Civ 5 is how they have streamlined and cut the fat. Civ 4 health has been cut out and combined with happiness, and it works well. You can really have a Gold OR Science city now. If you are a war-monger you MUST build courthouses, colosseums etc if you want to keep unhappiness in check. They have made the game much more balanced by redefining some elements and bringing them into focus.
Religion and Espionage were tagged on in Civ 4, they often ended up being either/or. You could easily play, up to Emperor (I've never played higher) without ever using Espionage or ever worrying about establishing Religions yourself.
Once this cleaner version has been tested by us in the community we might see Espionage again. But just look how they have redefined may aspects of the game and made them individually important. If Espionage comes back in an expansion it will be necessary in a much more fundamental way than before but first I am sure they wanted to see the basics (which is awesome as is) first.
Religion and Espionage were tagged on in Civ 4, they often ended up being either/or. You could easily play, up to Emperor (I've never played higher) without ever using Espionage or ever worrying about establishing Religions yourself.
Once this cleaner version has been tested by us in the community we might see Espionage again. But just look how they have redefined may aspects of the game and made them individually important. If Espionage comes back in an expansion it will be necessary in a much more fundamental way than before but first I am sure they wanted to see the basics (which is awesome as is) first.
$10 for an extra civ and a map pack is outrageous. It just sets the tone for further DLC: 2K/Firaxis knows the Civ community will pay, so they can get away with high prices. I've been miffed ever since I paid $19.99 for Play the World, which was not worth half of that.
IMO new civs as DLC should cost $1.99 at MOST, considering mods give so much more for free.
Lord Tirian
Erratic Poster
And how do you determine whether it's finished?
Thing is, as probably every person who worked on projects can tell you, projects are *never* finished. There is *always* one more data set to take, one more analysis to try, one more variable to experiment with, one more... you get the gist. There is always room for improvement.
If you want to get things *done* in a realistic time frame, you *have* to say at some point "it's good enough to work" - my impression from CiV is: it works (that's subjective, though). Just because there's room for improvement, it doesn't mean you have to do so.
Finally, there's "no battle plan survives contact with the enemy" - having thousands of different players with thousands of different PCs, is something you just can't capture in a beta test, no matter how hard you try - so released games will always appear a little "unfinished".
Cheers, LT.
Disgustipated
Deity
wrong. Civ4 vanilla was a much more complete game than this.
This game is missing the detailed menus we had before. The pathfinding is broke (I have to move all units manually in small increments).
dirtforker
Chieftain
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2010
- Messages
- 11
I sympthaize with the criticisms, but I really am having fun with the game. They'll add alot more stuff to it, just wait and see.
And yeah, pathfinding is broke and it pisses me off. There are bugs galore. But at its core it is truly fun (IMO), which is more than I could have said for Elemental War of Magic...
And yeah, pathfinding is broke and it pisses me off. There are bugs galore. But at its core it is truly fun (IMO), which is more than I could have said for Elemental War of Magic...
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