This game is way too simplistic

[Ron Wee]

What the heck is a "Power Plant"?

I want to see

• Thermal Power Plants that require Coal
• Hydro Power Plants that need to be near Rivers
• Wind Power Plants that need to be on Hills
• Solar Power Plants that need to be on Desert tiles
• Tidal Power Plants that need to be on Coasts
• Nuclear Power Plants that require Uranium...

 

[Leyrann]

We'll probably see things like Power Plants expanded upon in expansions. Or you can look for a mod, there's at least one mod out there that splits it in multiple versions.

 

[Cerilis]

Based on what you listed, the only thing changing is the name depending on where you build it/what you have. Suggest some meaningful differences at least.

 

[Ron Wee]

Based on what you listed, the only thing changing is the name depending on where you build it/what you have. Suggest some meaningful differences at least.

Do I need to say that they need different Techs from different Eras, have different cost and produce different amount of Production and Pollution.

Players will need to replace old Thermal Power Plants with new Hydro/Solar/Nuclear Power Plants as the game progresses, depending on their resources

 

[Leyrann]

Do I need to say that they need different Techs in different Eras, have different cost and produce different Production

Pollution needs to be back and Global Warming needs to be added

Global Warming was the worst mechanic the game had... Every X turns random tiles now turn into different tiles, and you just get the finger.

 

[Ron Wee]

Pollution needs to be back and Global Warming needs to be added (unless the devs are Trump supporters)

The game also needs dynamic maps, like the ices melt, sea level rises as climate becomes warmer, natural disasters that can destroy an entire civilization

I also don't know why Hospitals, diseases, plagues, United Nations, Diplomatic Victory, Stealth Bombers are not in the game

 

[Cerilis]

The extra production of the buildings that come later would need to be abyssmal high to warrant fully rebuilding a T3-slot building.

 

[Ron Wee]

Global Warming was the worst mechanic the game had... Every X turns random tiles now turn into different tiles, and you just get the finger.

it needs better implementation, not complete removal

 

[Leyrann]

it needs better implementation, not complete removal

Then give better implementation. I've had discussions with people about this topic in the past, but I've never seen a version of global warming that didn't include screwing you over at seemingly random moments.

Probably the biggest problem with a mechanic like this is that cause and effect are disjointed; it's not that you have an input and then something happens. No, you're doing stuff a certain way, and at some point later, something happens because a bucket (called "CO2 released") filled up.

 

[Ron Wee]

That's the devs' job, not mine

But they can have a Pollution level for each tile just like the Appeal level
it can range from Extremely Clean to Clean to Average to Polluted to Terribly Polluted depending on the improvements built on the tile and nearby tiles (every tile starts in Ancient Era as Clean, woods +1, mine -1, factory -2, etc)
They can add an Environment/Pollution Map Lens (similar to Settler/Tourism Map Lens, Green = clean, Red = polluted) so players can keep track of their environment

if a tile remained "Terribly Polluted" for a few turns, it changes the features on the tile, lowers Appeal, scares Tourists away, cities on polluted rivers lose the "clean water" bonus, resources like Cattle and Fish can disappear...
And it can spread to nearby tiles and spread deadly diseases, lowering your population/citizens. It will force players to balance between growth and keeping the environment clean.

Policies can reduce/increase Pollution too, like encouraging citizens to use bicycles instead of cars, spend big on solar energy and ban Coal mining, etc.

On global scale, Pollution adds to Global Warming, causing sea level to rise, destroying coastal tiles or/and Natural Wonders, increasing the chance of natural disasters, forcing players to push their environment agendas in United Nations to reduce Pollution (or nuke the countries refusing to reduce pollution)




Speaking of resources, I fail to understand why the people in my civilization can't bring Wheat from this Plain tile to plant on the nearby Plain tile, or bring Cattles from 1 grassland tile to another

 

[Ron Wee]

So religion and "Theological Combat" (WTF?) are more relevant than pollution and Global Warming? Ain't we living in the era of global warming, smogs choking metropolises, ice bergs melting, sea level rising, Great Barrier Reefs dying?

Adding pollution mechanics into the game will not only make gameplay more interesting/complex, but also add realism and teach the kids playing the game about environment and saving our planet.

And then once every grass hex is covered with cattle and the atmosphere implodes from the weight of the methane, you can kill off all the cattle and get a production boost?

when I need to place a District on a tile with Cattle resource, I should be able to move the ****ing cows to another grassland tile instead of deleting/removing the resource (killing all the cows).

It makes sense to be able to move/copy simple resources like Cattle and Wheat to similar terrain types

What does not make sense is my people found some cows on a grassland tile in Ancient Era and can't move them to a nearby grassland tile in Information Era

 

[Leyrann]

That's the devs' job, not mine

Don't complain about something if you don't have a better solution.

As for your proposal for pollution, if cattle and fish and everything can disppear, are they lost forever? Because that is unlike the real world. If they can disappear, then you should also be able to breed cattle and bring them to different tiles. Very much changes the way the game looks, however.

Regarding "destroying coastal tiles", I live in the Netherlands. Half our country is beneath sea level. You know how much land we lost due to the sea level rising? Not a single square meter.

I could also go a lot more in-depth on all different types of clean energy that are not nuclear and why they don't work without just being supplements to fossile energy, but that's a topic for somewhere else. Either way games that depict a city or a nation (!) depending solely on wind and solar energy is extremely inaccurate if you know something about the subject. I don't want Civilization to turn into another one of these games.

Some more regarding resources, as I see you also mentioned moving cattle from one tile to another, it's called a "gameplay decision", or with a broader term "an acceptable break from reality" or, from a player's point of view, "willing suspension of disbelief". If you would allow players to move resources like wheat, cows, etc, you would change the way the game worked on a fundamental level. Civilization has chosen a system where you do not move resources, as this makes settling at the right spot better and settling at the wrong spot worse. It's a game with a historical flavour, not a history simulator.

 

[agonistes]

My apologies Ron, I deleted my post pretty quickly, didn't think anyone would have had time to respond to it, much less see it. Hope the deletion doesn't negatively impact your responses too much.

 

[Ron Wee]

as I see you also mentioned moving cattle from one tile to another, it's called a "gameplay decision", or with a broader term "an acceptable break from reality" or, from a player's point of view, "willing suspension of disbelief". If you would allow players to move resources like wheat, cows, etc, you would change the way the game worked on a fundamental level. Civilization has chosen a system where you do not move resources, as this makes settling at the right spot better and settling at the wrong spot worse. It's a game with a historical flavour, not a history simulator.

Some simple [bonus] resources, like Cattle and Wheat, should be able to be moved or copied
Once you have the Tech, you should be able have a Worker/Builder move cows from 1 tile to a nearby tile (it needs to be grassland too)
Worker/Builder also should be able to take Wheat and plant it somewhere else (another Plain tile far away). I think in reality, wheat was brought from Asia to Europe so it makes sense.

As for your proposal for pollution, if cattle and fish and everything can disppear, are they lost forever? Because that is unlike the real world. If they can disappear, then you should also be able to breed cattle and bring them to different tiles. Very much changes the way the game looks, however.

Maybe they don't disappear right away, but have their bonus reduced and when Pollution level increased you get warnings before they die out
You should be able to bring cows back once the environment improved, just like how you can replant forest/woods.
As for fish, they can reappear after the tiles become clean again, maybe.

Regarding "destroying coastal tiles", I live in the Netherlands. Half our country is beneath sea level. You know how much land we lost due to the sea level rising? Not a single square meter.

Suzerain bonus from Amsterdam City State:
- you can build Flood Control improvements to combat sea level rising
- you can build Red Light Districts Wonder which attracts Tourists and provides Amenities

Anyway, I don't see any of these stuffs too hard to implement. I guess the Devs are either lazy or Trump supporters
Moderator Action: Please stop trolling this forum. Current events and politics have no place in the game forums. leif
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[rschissler]

What the heck is a "Power Plant"?

I want to see

• Thermal Power Plants that require Coal
• Hydro Power Plants that need to be near Rivers
• Wind Power Plants that need to be on Hills
• Solar Power Plants that need to be on Desert tiles
• Tidal Power Plants that need to be on Coasts
• Nuclear Power Plants that require Uranium...

The only way I can see that is if a city can use tiles beyond the 3 tile radius. And that's not going to happen with this version.

 

[Leyrann]

some simple resources, like Cattle and Wheat, should be able to be move or copy
once you have the Tech, you should be able have a Worker/Builder move cows from 1 tile to a nearby tile
Worker/Builder also should be able to take Wheat and plant it somewhere else (another Plain tile far away). I think in reality, wheat was brought from Asia to Europe so it makes sense.

Oh, I'm not going to deny that it makes sense. But as I said, this is a game with a historical flavour, not a history simulator. I would also like to mention that "simple" resources like Cattle or Wheat are, in general, just as good as other resources. Excluding the better luxery resources, all resources give a bonus of 1 yield of their kind.

Maybe they don't disappear right away, but has their bonus reduced and you get warnings before they die out
You should be able to bring cows back just like how you can replant forest/woods.
As for fish, they can reappear after the tiles become clean again.

Here, again, resources give a bonus of one of their kind. 1/2 food doesn't exist, so I don't see how wheat or cattle can have it's bonus reduced.

Suzerain bonus from Amsterdam City State:
- you can build Flood Control improvements
- you can build Red Light Districts Wonder

I don't see how this has anything to do with what I mentioned except "you're right but I don't want to accept it so I'll say something totally unrelated".

 

[Futumch]

I was sure there were coal and then nuclear and hydro plants in older iterations of Civ. Pollution used to be a hassle to manage until you got the later power plants.

Originally I intended to make some snarky comment about how Civ isn't Sim City or Cities Skylines, but I think the OP has a pretty valid point.

 

[Victoria]

Its a game that needs some mechanics and some look real and others look unreal.
I really have no issue with cows not being on every pasture because they are not in every pasture in reality. (I do like the deleted methane gas of agonistes though)
When you have a farm that farm will grow wheat, just not as well as that wheat square so is just called a farm
I believe the united nations may be coming so there is some good news for you
There has been many threads on natural disasters, many do not want them so I doubt they will put them in
As I understand it they keep 30% of the last game and change the rest, maybe they decided its about time just to call them power plants, I have no issue with this. I always thought a lot of the differences were just annoying and with everything vying for river space I suspect things like Hydro would weaken Sumerian, Egyptian and French interests. but sure the game is not finished IDC if they bring them back

Not sure I want a field hospital and a general hospital (yes why can the Army not have hospitals that follow it.) And should that hospital be called different things as eras change because medical advancements are there just like power plant advancements...
For that matter my banks should have a chance of ruining my economy through corruption

Is the game too simplistic? nah, just different IMO and I quite like it

 

[Ron Wee]

Oh, I'm not going to deny that it makes sense. But as I said, this is a game with a historical flavour, not a history simulator. I would also like to mention that "simple" resources like Cattle or Wheat are, in general, just as good as other resources. Excluding the better luxery resources, all resources give a bonus of 1 yield of their kind.
Here, again, resources give a bonus of one of their kind. 1/2 food doesn't exist, so I don't see how wheat or cattle can have it's bonus reduced.

then maybe:
- when the tile is polluted, the bonus provided by the resource will suspended
- when the pollution level increased, the resource will disappear after a few turns (players are warned)

Since these bonus resources only add some food/gold, using Worker/Builder to place it on empty tiles (cost Production and time) would be like a long term investment (or simply rebuilding lost resources)

I don't see how this has anything to do with what I mentioned except "you're right but I don't want to accept it so I'll say something totally unrelated".

What you said about the Netherlands is one of the kind. Not many countries have the technology and experience to deal with sea level rising.

But.... once player researched some Techs, they should be able to save their Coastal tiles with some improvements, I guess.

Since this game has the City State Suzerain system, Amsterdam should give you the tech to build Dams and stuffs to save your land

The only way I can see that is if a city can use tiles beyond the 3 tile radius. And that's not going to happen with this version.

They should still be inside the Industrial District, but players must think of the future before placing the District
- if you want a Hydro Power Plant later, build the Industrial District near rivers
- if you want a Solar Power Plant later, build the Industrial District on Desert tile
- if you want a Tidal Power Plant later, build the Industrial District on Coastal tile
the other Power Plants only require strategic resources like Coal and Uranium

 

[Cerilis]

I don't think there is a need for adding such mechanics with only the purpose of being a pain in the ass.