This is a little apprehensive

[SuperSmash5]

Is it me or do the German and Ottoman special abilities seem kinda........... ?

All of the other ones seem pretty cool and diverse and are fairly passive in their effects. Germany is my favorite Civ to play as and I expected them to have some sort of military or production bonus but...... barb assimilation? What good does that even do you? If the barb is a unit that's good enough that it you'd actually want to take it, you'd end up losing against it half of the time anyway. Gold is nice, but I wouldn't say periodic handfuls of gold are anywhere near as useful as a passive civilization-wide bonus. The Songhai at least get a few other effects.

And what happens when you turn barbs off? Then they have no special ability.

Maybe I'm just complaining a bit too much, but how hard would it have been to just say "+3 hammers (or however many is appropriate) in every city once you enter the industrial age"? That seems a lot cooler.

Okay I'm done ranting. Take it or leave it.

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[Ogrelord]

it is not what they give you but what you do with it

 

[VainApocalypse]

I tend to agree that Germany and the Ottomans have suboptimal abilities, to the inclusion of Songhai and the Aztec, at least in comparison to the other civs. These four have abilities that seem as though they will only be of use for brief periods or under very specific circumstances. That said, it will just require the player to put more effort into taking advantage of the abilities. Unlike Rome or Russia, these four civs have abilities that you're only going to be seeing the most of when you make strategic efforts to.

 

[pi-r8]

with raging barbs and some good luck, they could actually be downright overpowered.

 

[Babri]

I always switched 'Raging Barbarians' on in cIV. These UA would be fun for me.

 

[Thyrwyn]

...and the Greek and Songhai special abilities suck if you turn off City States. Change the rules, you change the balance.

 

[glaivemaster]

If the barb is a unit that's good enough that it you'd actually want to take it, you'd end up losing against it half of the time anyway.

Ranged attack, ranged attack, ranged attack, kill. It's in an encampment so it's hardly going to respond (do encampments work the same way as cities? I haven't seen this discussed). Killing units at your level of power isn't going to be so hard these days, and free military means either a bigger economy (as you can focus on building an economy rather than a military) or, of course, a bigger military.

It's something to be made use of in the early game that will end up having a positive effect throughout

 

[Celevin]

...and the Greek and Songhai special abilities suck if you turn off City States. Change the rules, you change the balance.

He's talking about even with standard settings.

Doesn't it seem dumb that the Songhai get more gold from barbarian encampments than Germany, and it's only a quarter of their unique ability? 25 gold is nothing.

 

[Guardian_PL]

He's talking about even with standard settings.

Doesn't it seem dumb that the Songhai get more gold from barbarian encampments than Germany, and it's only a quarter of their unique ability? 25 gold is nothing.

Not really, 25 is a cherry on top of the cake made from free barb units at your disposal

 

[Louis XXIV]

Germany seems weak, but I at least trust that land warfare against barbs will be necessary. The Ottoman ability seems far too marginalized for my tastes. I simply can't believe naval warfare will be good enough to justify it.

That being said, their 2 uus might be.

 

[SuperSmash5]

...and the Greek and Songhai special abilities suck if you turn off City States. Change the rules, you change the balance.

City states seem to have a lot more influence over the game than barbarians. There's a whole victory condition based off of them. Barbarians disappear once the map fills out.

Besides, it's straight up weird to have an ability that requires you to be active amidst a group of passive effects. All of the others seem to provide steady bonuses while the German and Ottoman abilities feel like quick, cheesy gimmicks.

 

[Celevin]

Not really, 25 is a cherry on top of the cake made from free barb units at your disposal

...No.

That does not do anything compared to pretty much every other Civ ability.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Not really, 25 is a cherry on top of the cake made from free barb units at your disposal

Also, AFAIK, latest gamescon impressions state what Germans always have x2 gold.

 

[City Raider]

Whatever the gold is, I actually think it can be quite good. It will allow for rapid buying of tiles. I can already think of 1 strat where you build a few units for barbs, work on a settler while barb busting, then use your settler to place a city fairly close to a rival, then buy tiles to block them off/claim the land and then back fill with cities later.

Yes barb go away later, but the early boost they provide to expansion, might be well worth it.

 

[Lorteungen]

Germany seems weak, but I at least trust that land warfare against barbs will be necessary. The Ottoman ability seems far too marginalized for my tastes. I simply can't believe naval warfare will be good enough to justify it.

That being said, their 2 uus might be.

At least the Ottoman UU's seem quite powerful. A cheaper pikeman and a +1 movement tank sounds pretty weak to me compared to other UU's.

 

[Louis XXIV]

My thought on the Germans is this:

Land-based barb units will be prevalent in the ancient age. The Germans are in the position to build a few units, go barb hunting, and have a strong ancient army (and gold supply) while they are expanding. Then, in the Middle Ages, they'll have a (likely) strong UU to let them hold on to their gains and possibly expand. Finally, in the modern age, they'll have Panzers to go on a final conquest for victory. Sure, the UA seems focused on the ancient age, but it will allow them to get an edge while they can and their UUs will let them keep that edge. (ETA: Did not realize we had the full info on their UUs. Their Pike seems to be something that will help them hold onto their ancient gains instead of advance them, but that's not too bad. If the Panzer is only faster, that is definitely a concern. It should be powerful enough to make up for its late appearance and help the Germans push towards a modern military victory. Still, I'd argue that everything is at least balanced to keep giving benefits at different points in order to keep them consistent).

The Ottomans, however, are quite different. I feel this comes down to lack of information about Barbarian naval/pirate units (are they spawned from coastal land camps, are they going to be common throughout the game, etc). At best, I can see an ancient/medieval navy that is strong, which is situational at best. Maybe the gold will be useful as well. The problem is that their UUs are tied to one specific era and their navy doesn't seem to give them enough of an advantage before this point. Ideally, they should have a strong navy the same time their army is strong, but I can't say for sure this will happen.

 

[Lorteungen]

My thought on the Germans is this:

Land-based barb units will be prevalent in the ancient age. The Germans are in the position to build a few units, go barb hunting, and have a strong ancient army (and gold supply) while they are expanding. Then, in the Middle Ages, they'll have a (likely) strong UU to let them hold on to their gains and possibly expand. Finally, in the modern age, they'll have Panzers to go on a final conquest for victory. Sure, the UA seems focused on the ancient age, but it will allow them to get an edge while they can and their UUs will let them keep that edge.

The Ottomans, however, are quite different. I feel this comes down to lack of information about Barbarian naval/pirate units (are they spawned from coastal land camps, are they going to be common throughout the game, etc). At best, I can see an ancient/medieval navy that is strong, which is situational at best. Maybe the gold will be useful as well. The problem is that their UUs are tied to one specific era and their navy doesn't seem to give them enough of an advantage before this point. Ideally, they should have a strong navy the same time their army is strong, but I can't say for sure this will happen.

If the UU's are really cheap pikemen and slightly faster tanks as reported, I can't see the real edge there.

 

[Jerrymander]

I wouldn't call anything in the game "" at this point. I would wait until I had played the game to pass judgement on something we don't really know about.

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[Polobo]

City states seem to have a lot more influence over the game than barbarians. There's a whole victory condition based off of them. Barbarians disappear once the map fills out.

Besides, it's straight up weird to have an ability that requires you to be active amidst a group of passive effects. All of the others seem to provide steady bonuses while the German and Ottoman abilities feel like quick, cheesy gimmicks.

Well, except the French SA ends outright at steam power...

One consequence of the converting barb units is that you are likely to have additional early game units that are able to perform scouting duties thus increasing the likelihood of discovering natural wonders and getting the associated happiness bonus.

 

[Louis XXIV]

If the UU's are really cheap pikemen and slightly faster tanks as reported, I can't see the real edge there.

Where was this reported? I've been checking Arioch's site and there isn't any info. It'll also depend on how much cheaper and how much faster as well. Is the Landsknecht cheap enough that they can swarm enemies and overwhelm them (even if the enemies have more expensive Longswords)? Is the Panzer +1 movement (5) or +2 movement (6). A 6 move unit would be hard to counter because it could race past you or pillage and retreat with fewer consequences.