This is one of the Many Reasons I'm getting Out of the Army

[Commodore]

A high-ranking Pentagon official this week acknowledged that Madigan Army Medical Center provided unacceptable treatment to Oregon National Guard soldiers returning from Iraq.

Defense Undersecretary Clifford Stanley’s April 13 letter to an Oregon senator was the latest high-level response to complaints that National Guard members were rushed through the hospital and treated as if they were second-rate soldiers.

The soldiers belonged to the 41st Infantry Brigade Combat Team. They obtained slides from a Madigan training presentation that included slights, such as one showing a trucker’s cap with the words “Weekend Warrior” to represent reserve soldiers.

Stanley said the Guard’s complaints triggered five separate investigations. He declined to release all of those reports to Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Ore., but pledged to answer specific questions.

“The training failures, benefits counseling errors, and systemic deficiencies that arose during the demobilization of the 41st IBCT were unacceptable,” Stanley wrote. “We have learned many lessons as a result of these incidents and the department is doing everything it can to ensure they do not happen again.”

Wyden’s pressed the Army to investigate whether Reserve and National Guard soldiers are given less attention from medical staff when they return from deployments. Five generals promised to investigate the complaints from the Oregon soldiers when the brigade came home last May.

The Army finished its investigations in October, but has declined to disclose all its findings. It also has said the reports led to some improvements in how soldiers are processed through hospitals as they come home from deployments, but it has declined to say specifically what has changed.

It released one 30-page report to Wyden that concluded in part that Army medical staff do not give National Guard and Reserve soldiers second-rate attention.

“We queried soldiers from all three Army components (active duty, Reserve and National Guard) and found no indications or opinions of unequal quality of medical care,” said the report from the Western Regional Medical Command inspector general.

However, memos obtained by The News Tribune through a Freedom of Information Act request shows the Army views complaints from the Oregon soldiers as part of a broader problem in how soldiers move through “Soldier Readiness Processing” sites at hospitals when they return from combat.

“I am convinced many of the (SRP) issues are systemic issues affecting SRP sites generally, which suffer from a lack of effective leadership, definitive training and guidance on the complicating and occasionally inconsistent guidance relevant to SRPs, the availability of treatment and benefits and the disposition of reserve component personnel,” wrote Maj. Gen. Philip Volpe, commander of the Western Regional Army Medical Command, in an Oct. 5 memo.

The regional medical command is based at Lewis-Mc-Chord and has oversight over military health care facilities in 20 states.

Wyden spokesman Tom Towslee said the senator views Undersecretary Stanley’s letter as progress. Wyden still wants more clear answers on whether Reserve and National Guard soldiers are subjected to “systemic discrimination” in the military.

“None of the information we received from the military suggests that they even looked into the problem,” Towslee said. “You can’t fix what you don’t acknowledge.”

http://www.theolympian.com/2011/04/15/1617702/madigan-issues-to-bring-change.html

I'm stationed at JBLM and I can say that poor handling of SRP is not the only issue Madigan has. My wife is pregnant and we have been told that we have to use Madigan during her pregnancy. During this pregnancy we have had doctors that can't keep appointments and unable to provide answers to the medical questions we have. On top of that, all the doctors there act like doing there job is an inconvenience.

There is also an information sharing problem at Madigan. My wife has had to explain her medicinal allergies at every single appointment. There are also other pieces of information that should be documented for future reference that they don't document. How is a doctor supposed to treat a patient effectively if there is no documentation or information sharing between doctors of that patient's medical history.

As for me, my knee has been injured since September of last year, and despite numerous requests from me AND my chain of command, Madigan refused to give me an MRI. I finally got one last month, and sure enough my knee is all messed up. They are giving me steroid injections now and tell me that if those don't work surgery is my next step. I wonder, if they had given me the MRI sooner, would they have been able to treat my knee with less aggressive treatments?

In closing, all I can say is that Madigan Army Medical Center is without a doubt, the worst hospital I have ever dealt with. It needs a complete overhaul.

 

[Dreadnought]

I'm seeing a parallel between military healthcare and state-run health care.

 

[Birdjaguar]

We could save lots of money and reduce the size of government by eliminating veterans health care altogether. Think of all the jobs it would create and how it would contribute to reducing the deficit. Oh wait, it would throw all those VA doctors and nurses and staff out of work adding to the unemployment rolls and those seeking government handouts like unemployment benefits.

@Commodore: I am sorry about your situation. Good luck finding a solution.

 

[MobBoss]

In closing, all I can say is that Madigan Army Medical Center is without a doubt, the worst hospital I have ever dealt with. It needs a complete overhaul.

I've been saying this for years. The care is abyssmal unless you eventually work your way up a department to see a real specialist, then you can actually get decent care. But this process takes forever, and it often appears they make it overly difficult to get the care you need simply so that you will either give up on trying to get it or seek it elsewhere.

I strained my shoulder lifting weights on 1 Apr. I've been in three different times since then, for three different diagnosis. No x-ray, No MRI. I am now on a pill steroid regimen and muscle relaxers. My first visit a newly promoted CPT said 'take motrin, take a week off, and then lift light' and that was it. I did that, and almost re-injured it a week later trying to 'lift light'. Pain came back so went back in, and now got 3 weeks off no lifting, steroids and muscle relaxers, and a physical therapy consult with more detailed instructions as to how much I should be lifting after three weeks.

My wife had an appointment there today for some lower back pain, and her provider refused to give her any meds, and basically told her she needed to do yoga and 'breath out her eyelids'.

No, I am not joking.

@BJ: Most of your VA doctors and even basic providers at Madigan are civlian employees, not military....and more than a few are decidedly.....odd.

 

[Dreadnought]

We could save lots of money and reduce the size of government by eliminating veterans health care altogether. Think of all the jobs it would create and how it would contribute to reducing the deficit. Oh wait, it would throw all those VA doctors and nurses and staff out of work adding to the unemployment rolls and those seeking government handouts like unemployment benefits.

If what he said is true, those doctors and nurses sound pretty incompetent already. Either that, or the system sucks.

Regardless, if it is the former, than they shouldn't have a job in the first place; if its the latter, then we are wasting money on an ineffective system.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

I'm seeing a parallel between military healthcare and state-run health care.

Just because the U.S. cannot do that right does not mean other countrys cannot.

 

[Dreadnought]

Just because the U.S. cannot do that right does not mean other countrys cannot.

True, because those other countries don't have the population size of the U.S.

 

[Sveon]

Because in statistics a measure of 300 million differ so much from 1 million? It doesn't. Practically, you're inept as I'll get out but I guess it's a lot harder or something.

 

[Singularity]

That's bitter Commodore.

And believe me it's not only US armed forces who suffer. Norway, the supposed beacon of all that's good in the world of state health care has horrible veteran services as well.

Get this; the army and MoD didn't know who or how many had been on active tours in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Doctors where sent to Afghanistan knowing the SAR infrastructure was horrible - and that in many combat casualties they would be fatal before they could reach the FOB or the more central clinics for advanced surgery.

Our new standard assault weapon, HK416, received a new and environmentally friendly non-lead ammunition. The only problem is that it gave our soldiers nerve damage after having exchanged a certain amount of rounds on the range. Numbers of casualties are classified, but yesterday they decided to banish the ammunition after 2 years of knowing how dangerous the fumes where. Now our military management are rushing an order of 2.5 million rounds of regular lead ammunition so we can actually defend ourselves should we have to. That's two years where our military medical resources looked on with open eyes until the problems could not be ignored any longer.

 

[Glassfan]

As a young Marine, I got my left-side wisdom teeth pulled by Navy Dentists. It was my introduction to torture in the military. I disregarded my next appointment for the other side and and had my civilian dentist back home finish the job.

The conventional wisdom back then (70's) was that doctors and dentists would get training and experience in the military so they could prepare for eventual civilian practice. Servicemen are docile and can't complain or get a second opinion - perfect guinea pigs. Today, wistleblowing is an extremely effective way to motivate change. Enough bad publicity and even the VA has to take action.

 

[Yoda Power]

True, because those other countries don't have the population size of the U.S.

If that's your best argument, then you should probably reevaluate your beliefs.

Healthcare systems are affected by a lot of factors (corruption, rate of social equality, culture, money, education levels, etc. etc), but size of the population is really not one of them.

 

[Hehehe]

I had a tooth pulled out when I was serving. The care was both good and free. I, for one, have no complaints about Finnish military healthcare.

 

[Azale]

True, because those other countries don't have the population size of the U.S.

Japan has well over 100,000,000. The Qing Dynasty was pulling off amazing feats of administration on a population of a similar size in the 18th century, with a very non-intrusive state model (mostly).

I don't want to hear that we can't do it because we have a certain population. If that's really the case, then blow it up. I'll take my universal healthcare as part of the Federation of Former Southwest States, thank you.

And if you go by per capita GDP, there is really no reason to believe the US can't do it because of some nonsense like population. It's about efficiently allocating your resources and having sufficient political will to actually carry out a universal program.

 

[Cutlass]

I think that military medical care and VA care is all over the map rather than being only bad. Some elderly people I know get all their care at the VA, and think it's wonderful. Many others, not so much. I once got a shot from a Navy corpsman, and it was the most painless and professional shot I ever had.

 

[BuckeyeJim]

The VA facility in Mansfield is wonderful. I know veterans that will drive to Mansfield from Columbus as opposed to going to the facility here in Columbus. I've stories from the Columbus VA that make me want to cry.

We'd have less problems with the VA if we didn't get into unwinnable wars in foreign lands.

 

[Neonanocyborgasm]

In closing, all I can say is that Madigan Army Medical Center is without a doubt, the worst hospital I have ever dealt with. It needs a complete overhaul.

Sorry to hear about that, Commodore. I hope your family receives proper medical attention soon.

My understanding of military medicine in the US is that its dysfunction is a lot like civilian dysfunction in the US. There isn't a single coordinated system, but several systems that provide services to different personnel. The military itself only provides limited direct medical care, mostly on the battlefield, to injured soldiers. This appears to be very top notch, from what I have seen. For active duty soldiers and their families, not on deployment, there is something called TRICARE, which is an HMO that outsources medical care from private corporations. [SARCASM] As you know, private corporations care a great deal about the quality of their products, especially when they are a monopoly. [/SARCASM] Meanwhile, you have the VA hospital system, which only cares for veterans.

From what I've observed, the military puts all its financial energy into the first tier of care, since their primary concern is battlefield effectiveness. TRICARE and the VA get a lot less. Unfortunately, this has meant a lot of sloppy care will go on in them. I have the most experience as a civilian physician in VA hospitals, and can say that its care is some of the worst I've ever seen. I can go on about horror stories!

My argument is that as long as US medical care continues to be haphazard and tier based, you will see the same in the military. The US military just doesn't have the funding to be both an effective military force and medical force at the same time, least of all to veterans, who aren't even serving anymore.

But I agree that there is a decided lack of concern for the quality of care, especially at the VA. I point out especially the incident at Ft. Hood with Hasan, who apparently was allowed to do as he pleased, and not actually his job.

 

[Formaldehyde]

It is really another case of Robert Heinlein's TANSTAAFL. (There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.) Funding for the military healthcare programs keep getting cut like all other similar federal programs. The care gradually deteriorates to the point where it becomes an international outrage, like the Walter Reed scandal in 2007. It then receives a lot of media attention and gets another band-aid job until the next crisis.

Medical healthcare in the US has become prohibitively expensive compared to other countries. Until that underlying problem is solved in a reasonable manner, there will continue to be problems such as this, especially with any HMO-type program.

 

[GoodGame]

My wife had an appointment there today for some lower back pain, and her provider refused to give her any meds, and basically told her she needed to do yoga and 'breath out her eyelids'.

No, I am not joking.

@BJ: Most of your VA doctors and even basic providers at Madigan are civlian employees, not military....and more than a few are decidedly.....odd.

I might understand not giving meds for back pain, at least pain pills. Those can be addicting which leads to other problems so they should be given in proportion to actual need.

But if you think your health care provider is flakey you can always complain up their chain of command. The hospitals are supposed to listen to patients' complaints in one form or another.

On TRICARE, et al, the op is discussing a real government-owned hospital is meant to be fully functional. It's not a HMO or health plan. So the issue is actually whether or not the hospital is operating in good faith, using qualified people, etc...

My own military experience with the hospitals is they're ok, and not particularly different from any other hospital, other than the problems with long term care rooms for enlisted peoples (the big story news a few years ago).

 

[Brian Shanahan]

I'm seeing a parallel between military healthcare and state-run health care.

If that were true Commodore wouldn't be having the problems he's had now, wouldn't he?


Grow up, you cannot continue to spout a lie in expectation that it will magically become truth. It does not work like that.

 

[Dreadnought]

Because in statistics a measure of 300 million differ so much from 1 million? It doesn't. Practically, you're inept as I'll get out but I guess it's a lot harder or something.

If that's your best argument, then you should probably reevaluate your beliefs.

Healthcare systems are affected by a lot of factors (corruption, rate of social equality, culture, money, education levels, etc. etc), but size of the population is really not one of them.

Japan has well over 100,000,000. The Qing Dynasty was pulling off amazing feats of administration on a population of a similar size in the 18th century, with a very non-intrusive state model (mostly).

I don't want to hear that we can't do it because we have a certain population. If that's really the case, then blow it up. I'll take my universal healthcare as part of the Federation of Former Southwest States, thank you.

And if you go by per capita GDP, there is really no reason to believe the US can't do it because of some nonsense like population. It's about efficiently allocating your resources and having sufficient political will to actually carry out a universal program.

I should be hired to make threads more popular -- look at all the posters I got to comment!

I'll just say this: comparing a nation with 300 million to that of 1 million, you're going to need a bureaucratic system much larger to handle the 300 million as opposed to the 1 million. That means, there is much more chance for inefficiency and human error in the 300 million to the 1 million.