1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

This is why Rand Paul will be President come 2016

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Cryptic_Snow, Jun 12, 2013.

  1. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2003
    Messages:
    33,999
    Location:
    USA #1
    You seem to have that backwards. People are typically beheaded by "decentralized power" for being homosexual instead of the other way around.

    Even in the US, the homophobic movement has even become far more decentralized lately than it even was in the past. They typically vote for far-right politicians like Rand Paul instead of more moderate ones. They also advocate that the "decentralized power" of the states have control over their lives instead of the federal government because they feel they can better impose their bigoted ways on others that way.

    If you are really opposed to the discrimination and even persecution of homosexuals you should vote for those who are actively seeking to change things, instead of tolerating so many of their followers having these views.
     
  2. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    34,489
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    House of Hades
    Two possible answers:

    1) Yes because USA#1, so it is by definition the most democratic way to organize elections.
    2) No, because democracy is evil mob rule. The USA are a REPUBLIC (note proper all-caps), which means checks and balances and arbitrary electoral colleges.
     
  3. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy You gave me my own tail?

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2010
    Messages:
    19,266
    Sure, it's a democratically elected federation of states. The EC isn't arbitrary in purpose whether you are inclined to agree with its impact on elections or not. It suppresses the impact of overwhelming localized majorities in the election of one office holder. Given that that particular office holder is tasked with being the only elected representative who is given power by the citizens of the entire federation his election is tasked with making sure he has the relative support of the entire thing.

    Leoreth, I reject your wonderful 2 point snark. ;) Democracy isn't evil mob rule, but I still don't want my judges elected on two year cycles like US Federal Representatives.
     
  4. Ziggy Stardust

    Ziggy Stardust New Englander

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2005
    Messages:
    24,306
    Location:
    High above the ice
    I'd love him to win.

    Think of all the 180's and excuses that will eminate from the partisan hacks here.
     
  5. Murky

    Murky Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2006
    Messages:
    7,216
    Location:
    The Milky Way Galaxy
    I could see someone like Rand Paul getting the nomination from the Tea Party during the primary but a national election win is much more difficult to pull off. I'd think, assuming a descent Democrat candidate, that if nominated, Rand Paul and the Tea Party would face a crushing defeat.
     
  6. kulade

    kulade Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2003
    Messages:
    4,545
    I don't think it's unlikely at all that Paul can take at least the Republican nomination. Rand's advantage over his father is that despite agreeing on the fundamentals, he has significant establishment credentials and that earns media attention.

    Ron engineered huge money bombs and took close second and third place in various primaries and received essentially no media for it all, but Rand has been a favorite of the anti-establishment Republicans.

    Of course if opinion polls of Ron Paul are any indicators on his son, he should have massive appeal to Democratic voters and moderates as well.
     
  7. Murky

    Murky Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2006
    Messages:
    7,216
    Location:
    The Milky Way Galaxy
    Any Republican candidate is going to get media attention from the Right-Wing echo chamber.

    Another way to view is that Ron Paul scammed a lot of people in to thinking his brand could win when it had almost no chance at all.

    What polls? Most of the Democrats that I know laugh that the Tea Party and libertarians. They view them as a Joke at best.
     
  8. illram

    illram Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    Messages:
    9,218
    Location:
    San Francisco
    Rand Paul also has the advantage of not being a small funny looking guy with a squeaky voice. I am being serious, that sort of thing matters in Presidential elections. USA #1!
     
  9. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2005
    Messages:
    32,617
    Location:
    Scotland
    What tends to attract non-Republicans to Paul Sr. are his stances on drug legalisation and foreign wars, and his willingness to refuse cooperation with the Republican leadership. Paul Jr. doesn't share his fathers positions on those issues, even if he leans more heavily towards them than most Republicans, so it's unlikely that he's going to tempt them away from the Democrats.

    Plus, a lot of hardcore Paulites hate Paul Jr. because they see his participation in Republican high politics as some sort of betrayal of his father's legacy ("legacy"), and without that core of dedicate nutters, it's hard to see how Paul Jr. could pull off even the hopeless-but-persistent efforts of his father, let alone become a serious contender.
     
  10. kulade

    kulade Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2003
    Messages:
    4,545
    "Right-Wing" is a pretty primitive term in these circumstances; it's not like either of the Pauls got good press from conservative talk radio or on Fox if that's what you mean.

    Really the only consistently positive, or at least friendly feedback Ron Paul got in 2012 was from Left-leaning pundits like Stewart and Maddow. Then again a lot of their stories focused on the Party's abused of him, i.e. kicking his delegates out of the convention, pro-Romney voter fraud in Maine and some other states and the other media's tendency (again mainly Fox) to purposefully overlook him.
    Scammed? So it's worthless to support someone who doesn't end up winning? How would you know in the first place?
    Well on a basic level there had been several nationwide Ron Paul vs. Obama polls which predicted a Paul victory. Writing a candidate off as "Tea Party" or "libertarian" is sort of silly, but regardless, both Pauls have generally socially liberal stances.

    I will grant you that the consensus Left's views on Paul have soured (seems pretty obvious on this site) but part of that has been because of Paul's outright criticism of the current administration.
     
  11. mrt144

    mrt144 Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2007
    Messages:
    11,121
    Location:
    Seattle
     
  12. Ziggy Stardust

    Ziggy Stardust New Englander

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2005
    Messages:
    24,306
    Location:
    High above the ice
    @Kulade: Rather the kind of criticism. You know, the usual talking points.

    When he spoke out against the way drones are used he got a lot of support here from all sides.
     
  13. GoodEnoughForMe

    GoodEnoughForMe n.m.s.s.

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2006
    Messages:
    5,445
    Location:
    new alhambra
    Rand Paul would get limited support from the traditional Republican bloc, minorities, and women, the latter in particular, once his stances on rape victims not being allowed to get abortions come to national light. Tea Party support isn't enough to carry a national election.
     
  14. kulade

    kulade Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2003
    Messages:
    4,545
    @Traitorfish

    Yeah obviously Rand is a more "Republican friendly" form of his father, but he's still in favor of marijuana legalization at a federal level, the repeal of the NDAA, and is still generally anti-interventionist especially in the Middle East (although he has considered maintaining some of the military's bloated size).

    Of course you can never predict what the "nutters" will do, but it's not as if they're going to vote for Clinton. Aside from that, Paul is starting to come up on top of polls of Republican hopefuls anyway, so I doubt his foundation has given out.
     
  15. metatron

    metatron unperson

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2002
    Messages:
    3,754
    Ok, i stopped that thing at 8'49".
    Usually Paul is somewhat entertaining, but this was going to be fairly boring right from the start.

    Up to this point he has largely gone on and on about this woman that has apparently been audited.
    He says she and her husband had a "small manufacturing business" and she founded this Tea Party group to strike dead people off the voter rolls.

    Ok there are several problems i have with this:
    • The description of her occupation is a joke. They are capitalists. Actually probably her husband is a capitalist and she is some useless hussy.
      And probably her husband is a very bad capitalist. If you suck very much as a capitalist and can't make it anywhere else you go to Texas.
    • I then try to google her name, which is impossible due to Paul's pronounciation. Actually her surname is the first indicator that there may be some truth to my totally cynical speculation above.
    • I proceed to google "king street patriots richmond texas" and finally find her.
      Her name is Catherine Engelbrecht - that's German so Paul obviously can't even get the American pronounciation right - conservative intellectual that he is.
    • And of course i discover that she wasn't subjected to all this investigation for her founding the King Street Patriots, Richmond, Texas.
      No. She happens to be the founder of True The Vote. A racist right wing voter fraud and voter intimidation group. Which she passed off as a charity.
    • Which didn't fly. Courts have ruled that they are a political action group, not a charity.
    • That's her:

      Catherine Engelbrecht. In Paul's view a hard working co-owner of a small manufacutring business who started a little harmless charity.

      In reality she is a tax fraud, and a perfectly ordinary - not tax related - fraud (as in falsifying documents) who tries to screw ordinary (black) citizens out of their franchise for a living. Heck she even commited fraud in Wisconsin. And she got interviewed on "conservative" TV and Radio for an aggregate of... well, quite a long time.

    And that's what Rand Paul feels he should start his speech with. Not policy, not his proposals and ideas for America. No. He wants to start by misrepresenting a racist, a felon, a professional fraud as being a victim and having been unjustifiably investigated for fraud.
    While the court rulings against that woman and her group come in one after another...
    By "on the ground here in the US" you mean "in insulated oblivious suburban America"?
     
  16. Ziggy Stardust

    Ziggy Stardust New Englander

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2005
    Messages:
    24,306
    Location:
    High above the ice
    By the way, is Clinton really as sure a candidate as everyone makes her out to be?

    Edit: holy crap metatron, that is some thourough investigating. Respect.
     
  17. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy You gave me my own tail?

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2010
    Messages:
    19,266
    I'm not convinced most suburbanites or city folk know all that much about the ground, or the grass, or its roots. This is too easy. Must be missing something.
     
  18. metatron

    metatron unperson

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2002
    Messages:
    3,754
    Typing took longer, but the actual investigating took 30 seconds...
    ...and was only necessary because i am lazy and uninformed - i really should have known her in the first place.
    College kids on the other hand...
     
  19. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy You gave me my own tail?

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2010
    Messages:
    19,266
    Touche.
     
  20. useless

    useless Social Justice Rogue

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2003
    Messages:
    10,378
    Location:
    On the internet
    His support of her shows what kinda guy Paul really is. Helping racists... he's not that far away from attaining his father's legacy...
     

Share This Page