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This kind of stuff bugs me...

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by mavajo, Dec 10, 2007.

  1. mavajo

    mavajo Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2007
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    So I'm slowly wiping out the foolish American empire for declaring war on me. The Mali empire borders both of us - Mansa Musa is 'Pleased' with me. Suddenly, without warning or any prior problems between us, Mansa Musa declares war on me and vassalizes the Americans. I look at the diplo, and sure enough, I'm now at war with a 'Pleased' Mansa Musa. This is just illogical. He's at war with me and refuses to talk to me, but is still 'Pleased.' His diplo stance didn't finally change until I finished wiping out the Americans and then wiped him out, too. This is stupid for a number of reasons. Here I am with a massive army just steamrolling the Americans. Mansa Musa has good relations with me, and pretty much no army of his own. Yet he ignores all of that and declares war on me in order to vassalize a quickly-fading American empire. It's just dumb. Horrible AI programming, imo - it's like they don't even consider pros/cons.

    The second thing I had was Huayna Cupac (or whatever, can never remember how to spell his name). He's on another continent and fairly weak, so I pretty much treat him like dirt. He refuses to deal with me at all, since I'm his "worst enemy." Won't budge on a single thing...no resources, no maps, no open borders, nothing. That's all well and good. Suddenly, Huayna Cupac sends me a greetings and requests to trade goods. I mouse over him to see his diplomacy stance with me...and it reads "We will never trade with you, our worst enemy!" - while he's offering me a trade. So dumb.

    This stuff obviously isn't gamebreaking. It just really annoys me. Diplomacy has been the weak point of this franchise since the first Civ.
     
  2. JujuLautre

    JujuLautre Deity

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    I think that's the opposite actually; the american vassalized himself to mussa to have him declare war on you. That's the price for war in a way.

    As for the second one, I don't know what it is.
     
  3. mavajo

    mavajo Chieftain

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    Well yeah, we communicated the same thing - just said it in different ways. It's still a poor decision for the AI for them to declare war on a powerful civ just so they can vassalize a couple weak cities - ESPECIALLY when they have good relations with the person they're declaring war on. It's a lose-lose. They have little to gain, and tons to lose. I have no mercy when civs declare war on me - I wipe them out. They always wait to beg for Capitulation when they only have a couple cities left and I almost have them surrounded...why would I accept Capitulation when I'm about to take your cities myself?

    Civs should be quicker to Capitulate. They should evaluate your army, their army, and how many troops you have in their territory or neighboring territory.
     
  4. JujuLautre

    JujuLautre Deity

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    I don't consider that as being poor AI decision. Some leaders will go to war if you pay them the price, some others not. Catherine will even go to war with a friendly civ if you pay her enough.

    As for estimating the armies and everything to capitulate, I fear this is much more complicated to do than what you say.
     
  5. DigitalBoy

    DigitalBoy Emperor

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    Jun 29, 2006
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    1,346
    It is rather annoying that civs seem to so readily declare war on you just to gain a vassal, when they're usually so peaceful otherwise. In my experience, this was more of a problem with the Warlords expansion. I think in BtS (maybe even in patched versions of Warlords), the AI are more cautious about taking in vassals.
     
  6. mavajo

    mavajo Chieftain

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    I haven't been playing the game very long, but Mansa Musa isn't exactly a warmonger in my experience.
     
  7. FLUKE

    FLUKE Chieftain

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    May 22, 2007
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    Location:
    Wales
    This is why I always play a custom game with Vassals turned off, completely stupid "feature", I hate it.
     
  8. JujuLautre

    JujuLautre Deity

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    Exact; but consider that:
    - every civ is a potential warmonger if they see you're weak
    - Mansa is capable of declaring war on you even at pleased; and he is also willing to go to war with someone else until pleased if paid for it.
     

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