Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by Takagi Hiro, Oct 22, 2016.
Don't those two go hand in hand?
For me, "too good" implies imbalance. "Very easy" means you don't have to be a very good player to do well with them.
If you've looked at my tier list, it explains that Carthage is the queen of consistency and is the highest ranked civ for the sheer fact that you will always be competitive. But other than that, she doesn't really have anything else going for her.
I've always loved playing the Shoshone. A few ruins are all you need to turbo charge your start, the tile grabbing and UI get your new cities up and running quickly, and since all their bonuses are early and broad in scope you are free to pursue any victory condition that offers itself. Polynesia and Carthage are somewhat similar in this regard and likewise two of my favorites.
I haven't played the Shoshone since the Culture huts were reduced to 15 (tamps down early growth just a bit, likely pushes the initial science/culture bumps off a few turns) or since I started playing PerfectWorld as a change of pace from Communitas (fewer coastal islands=fewer unexplored ruins) so I'm curious if they still play quite as well. Getting that great early start is half the fun of playing the Shoshone.
I don't think so. With those raging barbs, scouting is quite difficult without a couple of units. Shoshone scout is great, but it is costly. On the other hand, defense from emcampments might be more useful now.
I like France for the musketeers which appear when I usually need a big war and chateau's are decent. And I like the Dutch. The polder's arrive late but they are so good and look amazing. And the sea beggars are ridiculously powerful.
I like English's UA despite its misleading text(Oh you get more spies in the renaissance, just the same amount everyone gets plus one)
Started a new King game with them recently and Polynesia might be one of my new favorites. It was Continents and I sadly found zero useful island locations so the UA didn't do much, but Moai spam was even better than I was expecting. My capital maxed out its borders (and actually ended up with really good production), at some point I forgot that Wonders have policy requirements and started grabbing some just because I could despite being a few techs behind, and I shot through the policy trees and was the first one to get an ideology. Haven't gotten Stadium/Airports yet, I'm interested to see how much of a Tourism boost they'll give me. Though the game might actually be over before that point because I went Indiana Jones after getting a lucky Archaeology tech steal at just the right time and I was able to liberate a huge number of artifacts from the AI's territory.
I do like China since (especially after the buff) they're able to continue growing while slotting specialists fairly aggressively, and India for the same reason.
Part of what I don't like about Siam (and Persia, while I'm at it) is that their UB isn't actually something you'll be getting in most cities under normal circumstances, so you have to sacrifice additional production for it, from the wiki description Wat doesn't look amazing either (basically +4 culture/science, additional anti-spy, and a scientist slot; not terrible, but not very exciting either). If I'm going to play a CS-oriented Civ with no bonuses to help you get CS alliances, I feel like I'd rather play Germany considering their UA is very directly helpful for their optimal win condition, though Siam's UU is better for sure.
Persia's UB can be built in any city, for what it is worth.
I agree about Greece. Played a game as them the other day and they were OP. UA and UB work almost too well. Was on the way to steamrolling everyone in the game until it bricked a little bit after unlocking ideology.
What specifically makes Carthage overpowered?
As someone who hasn't played them, probably the fact that so many of their advantages come into play early. 200 gold on founding your first city is roughly enough to buy a Scout and then rush a building, getting your early game jump-started. Free Lighthouses means that your coastal cities always have at least one 3 Food tile to work, and will always be connected so you have less unhappiness early, also makes them absolutely perfect for God of Commerce pantheon. Small advantages early turn into big advantages later and their early advantages are quite significant. Between the trade route boosting part of their UA and their UB, they'll be rolling in gold later too and can devote their extra trade routes towards food or production. Quadquiremes look fairly mediocre as UUs go, getting a couple melee ships with multiple promotions isn't terrible especially if you're playing on Continents or Archipelago though.
Yeah, and now that I think about, it's a replacement for a Classical era building so it's probably pretty cheap to get.
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