This World Congress Resolution Never Seems to Work for Me

Planktonic

Warlord
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Feb 8, 2021
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176
I'm playing my first run-through c Byzantium (Deity/standard everything). I founded the religion of Hinduism. Indonesia founded the religion of Taoism.

I have almost eliminated Indonesia but noticed (again) that I am not benefitting from the World Congress resolution that gives +10 CS to units fighting a civ c a different religion. In fact, in many previous games I have expended signif Diplo favor just to win this resolution but I have *never* seen it manifest in a damage counter in an actual martial combat (I *have* seen it manifest in religious combat between apostles).

Here is a screenshot of me winning the resolution and Hinduism being afforded a +10 bonus:

World Congress Hinduism 2.png



Here is a pending damage counter for my Tagma versus an Indonesian Pike and Shot:

Pike and Shot No Congress Bonus 2.png


As you can see, I am being credited with +4 CS against civilizations following another religion from the Wars of Religion red card that is slotted. But I do not get any +10 CS from the World Congress resolution.

What gives? Is this a bug? Does this happen to anyone else? Or am I missing something that I need to do to activate this bonus?
 

7daysofwar

Warlord
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Nov 24, 2018
Messages
141
Is Hinduism the main religion of your civilization, like are half the cities in your empire with hiduism otherwise it won't count. (I am saying this because that city you show is following Taoism
 

kaspergm

Deity
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Aug 19, 2012
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5,522
I don't think it applies to military units? I always thought this only applied to religious units. I do agree the wording is kind of ambiguous, though. Wonder if it applies to warrior monks?
 

Kotofei

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Oct 26, 2020
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I think you're getting the bonus but we can't see it...like how you can't see the vampire bonus until you hold the mouse over that window for a while. Tagma has base strength 50, +4 for Wars of Religion, +10 for the resolution, -5 for another effect we can't see. Damaged unit?
 

Planktonic

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Feb 8, 2021
Messages
176
Is Hinduism the main religion of your civilization, like are half the cities in your empire with hiduism otherwise it won't count. (I am saying this because that city you show is following Taoism

Good point. But yes, the empire is majority Hindu. Except for two very recently conquered cities (incl the one on the screenshot) all cities follow Hinduism, so 18/20 are following Hinduism.

I don't think it applies to military units? I always thought this only applied to religious units. I do agree the wording is kind of ambiguous, though. Wonder if it applies to warrior monks?

I actually don't think the wording is ambiguous at all. It specifically references combat strength in addition to religious strength. But again, I've definitely seen this bonus referenced in damage counters in religious combat, but never in actual military combat.

I think you're getting the bonus but we can't see it...like how you can't see the vampire bonus until you hold the mouse over that window for a while. Tagma has base strength 50, +4 for Wars of Religion, +10 for the resolution, -5 for another effect we can't see. Damaged unit?

Good eye, but the extra bonus you're seeing is +9 for the Taxis ability, and yes there is a small penalty for the damaged unit. I have converted 3 holy cities, incl my own, so my units do show +9 on the preceding damage counter screen but it is from Taxis, not from the World Congress resolution.

Has anyone ever seen this alleged combat strength bonus take hold?
 

Buktu

Prince
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Mar 9, 2018
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Germany
I actually don't think the wording is ambiguous at all. It specifically references combat strength in addition to religious strength.

It also says that the +10 only work for units of that religion. Normal units dont follow any religion so they are clearly not included in the wording.
I think as mentioned by @kaspergm they might refer to warrior monks here. Another theory about this I read on reddit is that you get increades combat strength and also increaded pressure from your religious units.
 

Planktonic

Warlord
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Feb 8, 2021
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It also says that the +10 only work for units of that religion. Normal units dont follow any religion so they are clearly not included in the wording.

Hmmm ... I don't agree with this interpretation, and I offer as evidence the Wars of Religion bonus as demonstrated in my original post. You can see that my Tagma benefits from a +4 versus the Indonesian Pike and Shot because of that card. This means that the game mechanic recognizes that my Tagma aligns with a specific religion (in this case Hinduism) and that the Pike and Shot aligns with a different religion (in this case Taoism), and is willing to apply a CS bonus on that basis. This is proof that the game mechanic *does* recognize that military units follow a specific religion- so why do I not receive the CS bonus from the World Congress resolution in addition to the Wars of Religion bonus?

I think as mentioned by @kaspergm they might refer to warrior monks here. Another theory about this I read on reddit is that you get increades combat strength and also increaded pressure from your religious units.

I agree that the World Congress bonus should apply to warrior monks, but the resolution clearly states "all units," not just warrior monks, so I think this explanation is unlikely. I think if they meant it to apply to warrior monks only they would have said so explicitly.

Also, I agree that religious units (Apostles) get increased religious strength from this resolution- I have seen it myself. But the resolution states "+10 strength (Combat and Religious)"- indicating that they are two different things. I interpret the +10 the Apostle receives in a religious battle as increased religious strength; if that is actually the increased combat strength intended, than what is the increased religious strength supposed to be? The notion that units apply increased religious pressure doesn't hold water to my mind- the mere existence of a religious unit (as opposed to a city) doesn't apply any religious pressure at all afaik. And a single Apostle or Missionary charge typically imparts ~220 units of religious pressure to a target city. Is this resolution supposed to mean that increased religious strength means that Apostles and Missionaries impart 230 units of religious pressure instead of 220 ? Has anybody seen that? I haven't, and I don't buy it.

I'm still left wondering if anyone has ever seen this CS bonus in action, either in your favor or against you....
 

Buktu

Prince
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Mar 9, 2018
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The bonus from wars of religion does not aply to the unit itself, its a buff a complete civ gets. It does not work like you described it but its more like Byzantium (you) follows Hinduism. Indonesia follows Taoism. So if a combat between you and Indonesia appears you get a +4 bonus if you run the card. Otherwise a unit build/bought in a city following Taoism would not get the bonus against a unit build/bought in an Indonesian city following Taoism. The card itself says "+4 Combat Strength when fighting civilizations that follow other Religions". So the card does not mention individual units at all like the resolution but just civs as a whole.
Religious units get linked with a religion, therefore you need a city following religion to buy them. There is no such thing for normal units which indicates for me that normal units are not linked to religion.

the resolution clearly states "all units,"

The resolution cleary states "all units of this religion" which is clearly different to "all units". Again normal combat units are (imo) not linked with a specific religion, warrior monks might be an excpetion here.
I do not know why they do not mention warrior monks explicitly. But maybe they had plans to release more religious combat units? Or maybe they considered modders adding more of them?


I just wanted to bring the theory from reddit up. It something to think about since it is not completly of the table just from the wording. Personally I think the other one is more likely.
 

Buktu

Prince
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Mar 9, 2018
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Germany
So I just ran a simple test using the fire tuner. Sadly I could not find a panel for the world congress to test the effect of the resolution. But on the units panel you have a tab for religion. As I already assumed normal units dont get a relgion tag even if bought in a religious city.

catapult.png

Warrior Monks do.

monk.png

So I guess the resolution buffs warrior monks which makes them maybe a little viable but does not affect normal units.
 

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Planktonic

Warlord
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Feb 8, 2021
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176
Buktu, thank you for looking into this. Your analysis is persuasive. It seems the resolution is not intended to apply to military units after all, the exception being warrior monks. In future I will know better and not bother to expend Diplo favor on this unless I want the religious strength boost.

Once again, I very much appreciate your efforts.
 
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