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Those annoying AI's always have so much culture

Discussion in 'Civ3 - General Discussions' started by Aceman101, Jul 25, 2007.

  1. Aceman101

    Aceman101 Chieftain

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    So I'm playing a game as Greece, and all the AI's are making over +60 culture per turn. The Byzantine's are producing about 80 per turn. And I'm only producing 48 per turn. This is at the very early middle ages. I built libraries in every city, and it did help... For a while. The AI always seems to catch up on culture. On regent it didn't seem to be a problem, but on monarch it's getting chaotic. I've got 21 cities, 1 library in about 15 of them. Byzantine has 14 cities and yet, somehow has +38 culture per turn more than me. I'm slowly slipping away in the culture charts. This is getting very annoying.

    The reason I'm trying to at least have the same amount of culture as the top culture producer (Byzantine) is so that my cities won't flip. I've had horrible experiences in the past with flipping and I don't want to make that mistake again, but it's so hard to keep my culture at least adequate. Is there any way to keep my culture up without spending a fortune?

    Of course, I could just conquer Byzantine, but I'm currently at war with Japan, and all my troops are fighting them. I predict it will last quite a while, so declaring war on Byzantine is no option, yet.

    I wish the AI wouldn't produce so much culture... It's getting very annoying. Any advice will be appreciated.

    Thanks!
     
  2. PaperBeetle

    PaperBeetle Chieftain

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    It gets all this culture by building temples really early, when it should be doing other more productive things, so they get their 1000-year-doubling pretty early on too. And then of course they get Construction and those colosseums start going up. :rolleyes:
    But don't put too much effort into culture just for the sake of staying ahead of the AI, your resources are better spent elsewhere. Flipping is such a marginal probability that it isn't worth hundreds of shields just to reduce the flip chance on a couple of towns from 1%pt to 0.5%pt or something like that.
    Remember that to have a flip chance at all, your town must have one or more of its tiles "poached" by an AI town, or have foreign citizens. Concentrate on dealing with those issues rather than the overall empire-wide culture level.

    Also note that there are a couple of AI who almost always fail to build any culture at all, even on high levels. I'm thinking of the Japs (and they get cheap temples too!) and the Zulus. They always amuse me; their feeble cultural borders make them a complete pushover when you come invading with knights or cavs.
    Indeed, given the ease of such campaigns, I think it is fair to say that slowing down your military is a more pernicious effect of strong AI culture than is the occasional flip.
    But I also appreciate that losing a town in a flip is probably the most annoying event in the game. Every time it happens, I am amazed afresh that no one in playtesting sat up and said "this feature is stupid; let's change it". :mad:
     
  3. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    Aceman101, I have the same problem. Typically, the AI has several times the amount of culture that I do. I'm currently making (another) attempt at Emperor, and I have the Koreans and the French as neighbors. (Well, I had the Mongols, too, but they're an OCC now.) I haven't looked at the game in a few days, but IIRC, the French have something like 5x-6x my culture, and we're just entering the Industrial Age.

    That said, PaperBeetle makes a good point:

    According to MapStat and CivAssistII, it takes immense amounts of military to stop the chance of a flip. I don't have spare military to use for that. In my game, I had several flips, all to the French. So I decided that the best option was to, umm, "assist the French in redesigning their cultural borders." (That's pronounced "invade and raze.") That way, their cultural borders don't touch mine.
     
  4. civverguy

    civverguy Chieftain

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    I recommend you starve down or raze the cities you capture from the AI that has more culture. What difficulty are you playing?
     
  5. ALA Gator

    ALA Gator Chieftain

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    I have 2 cities that are being encroached upon by the cultural borders of my rival... Moreover my people are impressed with their culture. I am planning to attack and take the neighboring cities and raze them or sell all the improvements and starve them to 1 pop and gift them back. While I am attacking them there I want to send a group of 15-20 artillery guarded by 10-15 infantry into their core cities and pummel them. I am hoping to destroy lots of their cultural improvements and reduce the population in the core cities drastically. My goal is to alleviate the threat of flip to my cities and to reduce their cultural production per turn so that I can catch up to them. Do y'all think this will acheive the goals? I don't want to conquer them because they are far away from my core and that would cause my corruption to drastically increase.

    Any thoughts would be appreciated.
     
  6. civverguy

    civverguy Chieftain

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    I think you can acheive the goals if after you capture the cities, you don't share a border with your opponent.
     
  7. cometflash

    cometflash Chieftain

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    You could always disable the option to flip cities.:mischief:
     
  8. PaperBeetle

    PaperBeetle Chieftain

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    If you mean the "drastic increase" in corruption for going over the OCN, don't sweat it. You might possibly detect that increase in corruption in your existing towns, if you knew what to look for and when to look for it. Reaching the OCN should never be a reason to stop your expansion.
    Mind you, if you are playing PtW and using the Rank Corruption Bug to get a large uncorrupt (FP) core, then capturing more towns near your palace would certainly increase your core's corruption noticably. But even in that instance, I would probably still go for grabbing more towns. After all, why did the AI build these towns, if not for your benefit? :ninja:
     
  9. Aceman101

    Aceman101 Chieftain

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    Yeah, I starve 'em down. But it doesn't necessarily happen to only recently captured cities. If the AI is way higher in culture (Which they always are) then my own cities will flip. To answer your question, I play Monarch.

    You're right, it's not worth spending hundreds of shields on improvements when you need to build more military units. But, I thought I was the only one with this problem because I was doing something wrong, but I don't think that's the case anymore.

    It's true that some civs hardly produce any culture. In the same game as I mentioned, the viking have about one third of my culture. I'm thinking about making a sort of "peaceful war" that is, send a settler down their and watch all their cities flip to me. But I suppose that probably won't work.

    That's the easiest way. Conquer the highest culture producer. If I had the spare troops I'd head over to Byzantine, but Japan is being so annoying and declaring war on me every 20-or-so turns. I did get a few of their cities, but they're tough.

    True, but I like all the standard rules turned on, if it's not then I sort of think it's cheating, and if I think it's cheating, I won't really feel like it's a fair game, and when I feel like it's not a fair game I, don't play the game.

    Ok, I have some questions:

    1) I find it's sort of worth building the Temple of Artemis if I'm on a large continent. Because then I get a free temple with every city I build. Has anyone else tried doing this?

    2) Is there any way to stop the AI producing culture? Not necessarily completely stop them from producing culture but maybe effect it in some way? Also, is there any way to do the above without using any troops? Like a peaceful method?
     
  10. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    This seems like a good idea, but I took a run at a culture game about 6 weeks ago. Tried it at Regent playing the Babs. I just could not get cities to flip to me, no matter how many libs and temples I built.

    1) I've built the ToA once but only because I got an SGL at the right moment, with no other Wonders to rush. Not only did I have a decent amount of culture, the happiness effect was nice.

    2) Aside from cannons, cavalry and Kalashnikovs, none that I know of.
     
  11. Aceman101

    Aceman101 Chieftain

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    Yeah. it seems like you need a lot of culture for the AI's cities to flip to you, but the AI doesn't need a lot more culture than the player to flip some of the players city's. And saying this, I recalled that in this game, with Japan, I had about 20 more culture than Japan, but one of my cities flipped to them. It had only 1 alien in it and about 4 of my own citizens.

    Yeah, but it's a pity it comes so early. If it came later in the game, it might have been one of the most useful wonders.

    Ok. Btw, what are Kalashnikovs?
     
  12. lucashp

    lucashp Chieftain

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    In early in the game, make sure you build the TEMPLE OF ARTERMIS!!

    Very helpful, Free temples in every city, 5 turns after its built you will get a cultural expand in every city, And then in another 42 turns you will get another cultural expand. I always usaully play the greece too, So I get republic as soon as possible to rush libraries.
     
  13. Aceman101

    Aceman101 Chieftain

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    Wow, you play Greece too a lot? They're one of my favorite civs.

    Anyway, I was 7 turns away from building the Temple of Artemis in this game, and then, the CELTS built it. :mad:

    It would have given me at least +40 culture per turn.
     
  14. Delphi456

    Delphi456 Chieftain

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    Someday when you are playing your first emperor game and getting outexpanded by the AI, you will realize the error of that statement.;)
     
  15. Pyrrhos

    Pyrrhos Vae Victis

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    Peaceful way, no, but decapitation will do the job nicely. The time to try it is during the MA (or very early IA). Assemble a large force and land it as close to the core of the Bab empire as you can. Take and hold the first city (by taking it, most culture buildings disappear). Starve it. Use it as a springboard to capture their capital. Now abandon the first city you captured and defend the former capital. Try to capture and raze as many of his size 8-12 core as you can. By the time he has invaded his own core and evicted you, his borders are wide open and his culture-producing core is no more. All 1000+ year bonuses lost, economy and military a shamble. Very gratifying!
    (Did that last week to the Arabs, worked like a charm :goodjob: )
     
  16. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    They're assault rifles. Designed by Mikhail Kalashnikov, and also referred to as the AK-47. Here's the Wikipedia entry: [wiki=AK-47]AK-47[/wiki]
     
  17. Othniel

    Othniel fighting for Achsah

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    One factor possibly being overlooked:

    A risk factor of flipping, a rather large one too IIRC, is where a city is located in comparison to the enemy capital and your capital. When one of your cities is closer to the enemy capital than to your capital, the risk of that city flipping to the enemy increases. Vise versa is true as well.

    So, say you try the idea of sending a settler away from your core to go flip some low-culture civ's cities. Probably that civ's capital will be closer to those cities than your capital will be, rendering the effort unlikely to succeed. You can, of course, see flip risks using CAII.
     
  18. lucashp

    lucashp Chieftain

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    No, I dont play greece alot. I play it for every single game! And If I really do feel like i played to much, You should play babylons for culture, (Sceintific, Religous) Cheap temples, Cheap libraries, Its all gooood. :cool:
    Or just "Random"

    And deplhi, Yeah. But im far away from emporer. Or sid.
     
  19. Aceman101

    Aceman101 Chieftain

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    Yes, that's a good plan, Pyrrhos. Except I always keep AI city's instead of razing them. :)

    Ah yes, I know what AK-47s are but not Kalashnikov. So that's what they are.

    I didn't think the distance to the capital made that much of a difference. :confused:

    You're probably right though. :(

    So Greece and Bab's sometimes. You really should try some other civs, you might like them more than Greece (But I can't think of a civ I like more than Greece, apart from Byzantine).
     
  20. DragonBird

    DragonBird Chieftain

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    You guys are strange... Somehow I always have WAY more culture... like at least 20+... And our militaries are ussually equal untill war is declared... All my near perfect cities(built nearly every improvement) go into military mode and role out units... I'm not the most aggresive player.
     

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