Thoughts on A/B/C bonuses

[Stalker0]

I think the golden age points hurt too, the AI will easily go infinite with them.

I have no idea how much the GAP really does but I do agree that the extra GA likely warps certain strategies. Mosques and baths are very good for a human, but are likely magnified in AI hands.

So I wouldn’t mind a cut there, not because I think the bonus is OP between human and AI, but possibly warping AI to AI

 

[Recursive]

@tu_79 The yield bonus doesn't scale with # of cities but each city gets the full yield bonus, so an empire with more cities will get more Food and Production globally.

 

[Stalker0]

@tu_79 The yield bonus doesn't scale with # of cities but each city gets the full yield bonus, so an empire with more cities will get more Food and Production globally.

Ok it’s like I thought. So it is fair to say that for world projects, an AI with double the cities would get double the production bonus towards that project

 

[tu_79]

@tu_79 The yield bonus doesn't scale with # of cities but each city gets the full yield bonus, so an empire with more cities will get more Food and Production globally.

Then it DOES scale on the number of cities!! I think I was clear using an example. So, if the handicap says 3000 production and the player has 20 cities, it gets 3000 production in every city, for a whooping 60000 production invested in a project.


EDIT
Why not change it to:
pLoopCity->changeFood(iYieldHandicap/numCities);
pLoopCity->changeProduction(iYieldHandicap/numCities);
instead of removing it completely?

 

[Gazebo]

Then it DOES scale on the number of cities!! I think I was clear using an example. So, if the handicap says 3000 production and the player has 20 cities, it gets 3000 production in every city, for a whooping 60000 production invested in a project.


EDIT
Why not change it to:
pLoopCity->changeFood(iYieldHandicap/numCities);
pLoopCity->changeProduction(iYieldHandicap/numCities);
instead of removing it completely?

Already on it for next version.

G

 

[tu_79]

Already on it for next version.

G

That was fast, man.

 

[Gazebo]

That was fast, man.

I'd noticed the discrepancy earlier and had already fixed it.

 

[tothePAIN]

I have no idea how much the GAP really does but I do agree that the extra GA likely warps certain strategies. Mosques and baths are very good for a human, but are likely magnified in AI hands.

So I wouldn’t mind a cut there, not because I think the bonus is OP between human and AI, but possibly warping AI to AI

The Golden Age points combo better with tradition / artistry / rationalism civs because those civs use Golden Ages the best. They get golden age points from wonders and build wonders with golden ages.

 

[Stalker0]

Already on it for next version.

G

So with this fix, is it fair to say that the prod and food handicap bonuses will be dramatically lower (aka 5 cities = 1/5 the original total bonus), or are you planning on raising the food/prod bonuses to compensate?

 

[Gazebo]

So with this fix, is it fair to say that the prod and food handicap bonuses will be dramatically lower (aka 5 cities = 1/5 the original total bonus), or are you planning on raising the food/prod bonuses to compensate?

 

[Stalker0]

hehe not a complaint, just trying to understand what the new plan is.

1) fixing a bug, but the original values were indended. Will bump up food/prod bonus to maintain existing experience.

2) large reduction: adjustment with no change in values, will largely weaken prod/food handicaps.

3) middle ground: adjustment, but with some bump in handicap values. Prod/food handicap will be weakened somewhat

 

[DeAnno]

Already on it for next version.

Between this change to global production A/B/Cs and the capital settling adjustment I think we've isolated the most obnoxious instances of production A/B/C bloat, this is probably in a good place for testing now. Hopefully the days of AI completing 3 wonders in one turn are over.

 

[InkAxis]

Between this change to global production A/B/Cs and the capital settling adjustment I think we've isolated the most obnoxious instances of production A/B/C bloat, this is probably in a good place for testing now. Hopefully the days of AI completing 3 wonders in one turn are over.

I mean it depends. If gazebo has adjusted the bonus to be more to compensate for dividing by the number of cities, then while this change will help even out AI with few cities and AIs with a lot, it won't stop the WC project/wonder/shrine completion problems.

 

[Stalker0]

it won't stop the WC project/wonder/shrine completion problems.

so the removal of bonuses on capital founding will solve the shrine problem. AIs will have to build that first shrine just like everyone else.

the per city change means that the amount of handicap bonus that can hit WC project is dramatically reduced.

the wonder completion is still there.

So these changes do make some big impacts on most of those areas

 

[CrazyG]

The Golden Age points combo better with tradition / artistry / rationalism civs because those civs use Golden Ages the best. They get golden age points from wonders and build wonders with golden ages.

Actually I think on Deity artistry wouldn't help the top AI much. It's only benefit to golden ages is +10% culture. They golden age points would be mostly wasted because the snowballing AI can get infinite golden ages just from his AI bonuses.

 

[DeAnno]

They golden age points would be mostly wasted because the snowballing AI can get infinite golden ages just from his AI bonuses.

It's interesting to think about how GAP are a yield that is useless once you have too much of it, a little like happiness in that regard. Not sure how to resolve that, but it feels a little bit bad.

 

[Stalker0]

It's interesting to think about how GAP are a yield that is useless once you have too much of it, a little like happiness in that regard. Not sure how to resolve that, but it feels a little bit bad.

I’ve been meaning to do a run where I track GAP pretty aggressively, like what I did with CV. I believe that GAPs actual value outside of artist bombs is garbage...but I need to look at some data to know what’s true

 

[InkAxis]

so the removal of bonuses on capital founding will solve the shrine problem. AIs will have to build that first shrine just like everyone else.

the per city change means that the amount of handicap bonus that can hit WC project is dramatically reduced.

the wonder completion is still there.

So these changes do make some big impacts on most of those areas

Ok, the shrine thing is probably fixed with the on-capital settle fix.

But:

the per city change means that the amount of handicap bonus that can hit WC project is dramatically reduced.

This might still be the case, as Gazebo might of adjusted them back to compensate.

 

[a3kov]

so the removal of bonuses on capital founding will solve the shrine problem.

It will only solve getting pantheons first problem. What about other cities ? AI expands also much faster than human does.

 

[Stalker0]

It will only solve getting pantheons first problem. What about other cities ? AI expands also much faster than human does.

get creative. Milk your pantheon for all it’s worth, use Roman forum and ally a faith CS, get writing and set up schrivers for faith allies...or go conquer a holy city if you don’t found.

Your still playing diety after all, it’s supposed to be crazy hard. We’ve removed the issue where players have no reasonable way to get a pantheon. That’s been fixed, but as far as getting a religion with secondary cities...that’s a lot more time to get your plan in place...so good luck!