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Three noob questions about the Cultural Victory

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by enkryptor, Mar 25, 2016.

  1. enkryptor

    enkryptor Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2013
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    I've never won a BNW game via the Cultural Victory, hence I barely understand how it works. Yeah there're a lot of guides, I know that Culture is my "defense" and Tourism is my "offence" and I'm supposed to overcome other civs' Culture with my Tourism. But it's the theory. In practice I have no idea how is it suppose to look like, when several civs are fighting for Cultural Victory.

    The questions that bothers me so far:


    Q1. Why there is dedicated Tourism metric against each particular civ?

    I don't get the idea behind it. My civ generates Tourism globally. Why don't compare it directly with other civ's culture? That looks logical, since from Civ4 to Civ5 Firaxis made things more abstract - they've merged health with food and made hapinness effects global. I guess there must be a clear metagame explanation (like "it gives players ability to... because of...").


    Q2. Is it possible to increase my Tourism against particular civ?

    This follows from Q1. I want to focus at a particular opponent. Is it possible? Yes I know about Open Borders, but it's more about the defense (normally I can close my borders, but can't force other civ to open them). I know about Great Musician "concert tour" ability, but it is kind of "one shot" (is it?). What else can I do to constantly focus at one single civ in term of Tourism? Do distance or city placement matters? Placement of special buildings (hotels, etc.)?


    Q3. Aiming to the Cultural Victory, do I need strong Culture?

    Third question is quite absurd - do you really need to generate Culture in order to win by Cultural Victory. I mean, by definition you win by overwhelming other civs with Tourism. That tells nothing about your Culture. To my understanding, the only reason you need a strong Culture here - to impede other civ's Cultural Victory. But that make sense only when you are leading in Culture, since your opponent need to take over ALL civs. So, if there's at least one civ with huge culture value - you are safe, aren't you? And if you're the only civ aiming to the Cultural Victory - you don't need Culture at all? Or do you?


    Thank you in advance.
     
  2. fyar

    fyar Prince

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    Q1: Because your level of tourism with one civ will not be the same as another. It's affected by things like religion, ideology, open borders, the Great Firewall, or even not having discovered them yet. They can't visit your country if you haven't met!

    Q2: The main method is one you already mentioned, with great musicians. Yes, it's a one-shot, but late in the game they can be very powerful one-shots. Early on, their effect is negligible, so it's better to make great works of music. (Many actually suggest not building your musician's guild until later so that those powerful late-game musicians will come more cheaply.) Other ways to focus on a particular opponent include spreading your religion, obtaining open borders, setting up a trade route, putting a diplomat in their capital if different ideology, or by taking advantage of your ideology's level 3 tenet (increasing your happiness over theirs if Order, starting a war with a common foe if Autocracy). In your "influence by civ" screen you can usually find out the magnitude of each of those tourism bonuses by hovering over the right column, and if it says "+0% for trade route" that means you can increase your tourism by setting up a trade route.

    Q3: There are a couple of reasons to have strong culture for a cultural victory. For one, you need to finish Aesthetics and often take 6 policies from your ideology... if you had to expend a lot of policies on other trees as well (Tradition? Rationalism? Piety?) then this will require a lot of culture to accomplish. The second reason is that many sources of tourism are tied to your culture. Great works, theming bonuses, wonders, landmarks/natural wonders/culture tiles with hotels/airports all generate tourism from their culture. The reason that you cited (to impede another's cultural victory) is actually not that important. You can still win a cultural victory even if someone is influential over you, so long as they haven't gotten influential over everyone else.
     
  3. enkryptor

    enkryptor Chieftain

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    fyar, talking about Q3, so basically I do NOT need overwhelming Culture for the victory itself. The only Culture I need - good enough to get required policies and tenets, right?
     
  4. shaglio

    shaglio The Prince of Dorkness

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    Well, as Fyar said, Hotels/Airports/National Visitor Center will increase your Tourism based on certain types of Culture (Landmarks, Cultural Tile improvements, etc.). Getting more of those types of Culture will quicken your CV.
     
  5. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    True, however every way to generate tourism Also generates culture (except concert tours and Futurism)

    Great Works generate both
    Theming bonuses generate both
    Hotels/Airports generate tourism from Wonder and Terrain culture

    So things that Just give culture don't help (empty culture buildings, some social policies)
    But to get high tourism you will get high culture as a side effect.
     
  6. fyar

    fyar Prince

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    As shaglio and KrikkitTwo have noted, there's a sense in which what you say is technically true, but that doesn't mean that you can neglect your culture. It's not like you have to make a choice, "Should I emphasize tourism or culture?" It's kinda impossible to have good tourism if you don't have good culture anyway.
     
  7. Illianor123

    Illianor123 Warlord

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    Q1. I don't understand, you're tourism is compared to each other civs culture. Or are you asking about why not just have a single tourism score that grows each turn?

    Q2. Open border, diplomats to different ideologies, same religion, trade routes, all increase tourism spread.

    Q3. Pretty much everything that produce tourism produce culture, or produce tourism as a percentage of the cities cultural output.
     
  8. enkryptor

    enkryptor Chieftain

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    Something like that. You see, Firaxis tends to simplify it's game concepts (see city happiness and health). And now tourism, a culture counterpart, is dedicated for each particular civ. Does it really give more diversity instead of just making things more complicated?
     
  9. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    Yes, because you can develop strategies with each particular civ to
    1. increase your tourism over them
    (get open borders, shared religion, same ideology/diplomat, trade route)
    OR
    2. decrease their tourism over you
    (deny open borders, shared religion, same ideology/diplomat, and trade routes... or build Great Firewall against Internet tourism)

    Also you can get culture without getting tourism. (focusing on defense and a non culture win)
     
  10. SoonerJBD

    SoonerJBD Warlord

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    The issue here is social policies. Because culture opens social policies, which have massive bonuses, you need to be able to generate culture without being forced into a cultural victory strategy. It also makes culture a more important resource, diversifying gameplay. Consider science or gold. You need science regardless of whether you are trying for a science victory. Gold is helpful regardless of your victory strategy. If there were no reason to mine culture except for that specific win condition, you'd be able to neglect a huge portion of the game. If you don't build any science buildings, you are going to have an awfully hard time winning. Similarly, you have to find a way to generate at least a minimum amount of culture for opening social policies.
     

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