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Three stages of jihad

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by apocalypse105, Jul 27, 2016.

  1. r16

    r16 not deity

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    there's this little thing going on to destroy a country with sizeable numbers of Muslims who are whiter than the "norm" .
     
  2. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    Which country do you mean? Kosovo, Turkey, Syria...? The population of each could be considered white or non-white, or at least "not white white", depending on who you ask.

    The way Westerners apply racial categories to the Near East is honestly baffling. Greeks are white, but identical-looking people on the other side of the Aegean are brown, unless they're Christian, then they're white again, unless they're Palestinian, then they're back to brown.

    God only knows how the Druze fit into all this.
     
  3. r16

    r16 not deity

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    kosova of Yugoslavia has already has its share , and me being r16 Turkey would be the thing here .
     
  4. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    This thread is becoming decidedly weird. (Well, it would if we had another OP.)
     
  5. r16

    r16 not deity

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    why is it so , because of evidence that becomes rather more evident each day that the West keeps the finest Jihadists safe and sound ?
     
  6. abradley

    abradley Chieftain

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    My Bold.

    No:
    Woe to those who mock Islam, sort of like the modern slaughter of cartoonists who mocked Mohammad in print "Charlie Hebdo: Gun attack on French magazine kills 12".

    In other words 'Don't mock Islam' or we kill. IMHO that's terrorism.
     
  7. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

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    "wikiIslam, the online resource on Islam" :lol:
     
  8. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    Surprisingly the overwhelming majority of Muslims doesn't do terrorism. And that's not the only reason why such an equation is flawed. The extremism of the preciously few doesn't represent a religion. I'm not sure why that rule should not be applied, simply because Islam is at stake.

    This is like Mr Trump repeating the lie that 'thousands of Muslims were cheering on NY city rooftops during the 9/11 attacks'. Oddly, nobody has seen these thousands.

    As to the use of assassins: this dates back to the Crusades. You know, when Christianity showed its extremist, 'terrorist' face to Jews, Orthodox Christians... and Muslims.
     
  9. Gori the Grey

    Gori the Grey The Poster

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    I don't know what you mean by saying "no." I'm telling you what the guy in the OP's video claims is the earliest analog in Muslim practice for modern day terrorism. Yes, he does say that. Watch the video.

    If you're saying "no," that isn't terrorism, then yes, I agree with you entirely. But in the video, these caravan raids are trotted out, with the historical substantiation for them, as something that a modern day Islamaphobe might take as evidence that, see, these Muslims have been terrorists from the start.
     
  10. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    Part of the historical truth is that Mohammed was a warlord. If he's presented as a fallible figure in an imperfect world, then there are oodles of good things that can be given to his credit. But as soon as he's presented as some type of divine role-model, then the bad gets whitewashed. Heck, I've seen Christians use Jesus's cat-o-nine-tails routine as a justification of their own 'righteous' anger being expressed as violence. If you're worshiping someone who was a warlord, you're going to find more opportunities to use his example for evil.
     
  11. abradley

    abradley Chieftain

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    No it's not surprising, it depends on what the Iman (Teacher) teaches, in the states the polls say the vast majority of Muslims don't see Islam as violent (Jahidic), but as you and Dr Pipes pointed out earlier, when the Islamist terrorize, we respond, then peaceful Muslims fell they're an oppressed minority and start responding against us.

    That's ISIL's strategy throughout the world and it's a good strategy, won in China and Vietnam.

    But what is the alternative to responding ... ignoring the terrorism, act as if it didn't happen.

    You need to do some reading on the Crusades, I suggest 'Crusade Myths by DR T Madden', history of the whole Middle Ages has been shown to be seriously flawed with modern research.

    As for the Assassins:
    They weren't a result of the Crusades, they started in Iran/Persia, the Crusades didn't invade Persia. They were equal opportunity Assassins, nobody was safe, Sunni, Shia, or Crusader.
     
  12. AlpsStranger

    AlpsStranger Jump jump on the tiger!

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    This I think, more than anything else, is the difference.

    You CAN do evil in the name of Christianity and Christianity is, of course, fishy as a factual matter. Just like Islam or anything else. Certainly, the God of the old testament is a violent, brutal <snip> to boot.

    Islam has its good messages and isn't black and white evil, to be sure, but I'm not going to pretend I consider it a positive influence on the world as a whole. I don't hold any animus for individual Muslims I've met, and I have met and befriended more than you might suspect, but I would not shed one tear if a mass apostasy occurred overnight.

    That said, I feel like some type of reformation is actually what we should all be hoping for. Islam is too core to the lives of believers for it to go away soon, or maybe ever, so it's better to hope for it to "mellow out" more completely than for it to go away.

    The only point I will be a total prick about is the "drawing Muhammad" type of <snip>. I have absolutely no quarter to give on that issue; you cannot and will not bind non-believers to your religious laws. If I wanna do Rule 34 Hentai of the Prophet getting it on with a Jewish tentacle monster, I will.

    Moderator Action: Inappropriate language removed.

    In addition, please take particular care to be civil when discussing gods or religious beliefs. Many people take them quite seriously.

    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
  13. abradley

    abradley Chieftain

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    I watched the video and agree with it's main idea of the three Jihads.

    Didn't remember the Badr raid being called terrorism, since it was I'd have to disagree.

    Mohammad practiced plenty of terrorism, but Badr wasn't one to my knowledge. Just a plain everyday raid, they were almost an Arab sport.
     
  14. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    So glad all the self-appointed experts agree with one another. Now, back to reality. Terrorism is a political movement originating in the late 19th century - in particular Russia. Just some basic fact anyone can google searching for 'terrorism'.

    Also, there still aren't 'three stages of jihad'. Jihad is a term referring to the just(ified) war a Muslim country may conduct. No such jihad is in evidence. The last time a jihad was invoked was by the Ottomans during WW I. It had no effect whatsoever. With the demise of the Ottomans the caliphate also died a quiet death. It had long been defunct before that.

    But please, do step into the IS narrative. By all means. That's just what they want.
     
  15. HannibalBarka

    HannibalBarka We are Free

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    Muhammad raided caravans, Jesus raided the temple merchants, terrorism is a long tradition withing Abrahamic faiths
     
  16. Hygro

    Hygro soundcloud.com/hygro/

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    If oppressed peoples are calling for tolerance only in weakness and for domination and oppression if they achieve power then conservatism is the correctly predictive lens of politics.
     
  17. abradley

    abradley Chieftain

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    Muhammad raided for loot, did Jesus raid for loot or was he chastising the corrupt merchants/priests for cheating the people?

    Terrorism has a long tradition with human beings.
     
  18. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    It's not easy to equivocate when it comes to Jesus. By most analyses, he sets an impossible standard. Most Christians are cafeteria enough to have re-written his teachings to make them sustainable.
     
  19. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    Oh no, because raiding already occurred in ancient Egyptian times. Unfortunately, raiding caravans isn't terrorism. You seem to miss the rather obvious fact, that where people are in terror (a very ancient word indeed), it doesn't follow that there is terrorism - a political act first practiced in 19th century Russia. By nihilists, not what you might call particularly devout people.

    But let's use a more simple example. Anyone familiar with the Civ tradition is familiar with the concept of raiding caravans. It brings in money and robs the other civ of money. That's why. And that's why we don't call it terrorism.

    You see, in order to understand terrorism, one first needs to know what terrorism is. Now, one could simply google it. One could even, use own's own brain, and see that raiding caravans doesn't even remotely fall within any definition of terrorism.

    Or, of course, one could do none of the above and simply make up one's own definition of terrorism. One could. And one would not be advancing in knowledge much that way. One would, however, seriously confuse the issue.

    Take your pick.
     
  20. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

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    :confused: Terrorism is probably about as old as states are. I suspect that you are defining state terrorism out of the analysis.

    The Romans for instance engaged in terrorism on a massive scale throughout the Mediterranean basin...

    Your point against abradley is well-taken, of course. Caravan-raiding is not terrorism, but "chastising the corrupt merchants for cheating the people" sure is (or could with fairness be characterized as) terrorism.
     

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