Threshold for a civilization to feel like a civilization

[dagriggstar]

So to be clear, we are talking about inidividual civilizations (I usually call them factions) rather than the game civilization.

Some background, I've recently been sucked back into civ II expecting that the lack of unique elements (Units, Buildings, Abilities etc) would really bother me. Instead I basically went back to being an addict lol. Turns out
1) Each civilization having a name
2) Each civilization having its own city list
3) Heralds and leader paintings. Tempted to put these as two points but they appear on the same screen and are therefore very enhanced by the presence of each other.
4) Being prompted for my leader name before game start. Then seeing that name pop up throughout the game.
Is enough immersion for me to feel like "Yeah I am the English, there's Persia to my North doing their thing" etc.

Conversely, my last civ VI game I abandoned in part due to not making full use of Indonesias kit. Basically I missed out on religion which kinda put me in a bit of a downer, because I didn't feel like I was utilizing all their advantages. Like I'm being told that this is in part a religious civilization but by not using missionary ability I'm not getting the real Indonesia civ VI experience. I find I get that feeling more when I ignore unique abilities (Mongolia Genghis Khan in VI looking at you) but sometimes if I just totally don't use a unit or building (Tlatchlis) as well.

So here's the question - what is the bare minimum amount of game elements you think you need to make you feel like you are the civilization you are playing as (what's the minimum for you to get the "Yes, I am civilization x" basically) ?
And a bonus question - How do you feel when you don't use all aspects of a civilizations uniqueness (Like if you don't use a civilization ability for instance) ?

 

[Gedemon]

art style and names are enough for me, never really cared about uniques or abilities.

relative positioning to real world civilizations is also something that help me think "I'm civ X", which is why TSL or grouping start positions by ethnicity are my kind of mods.

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

So here's the question - what is the bare minimum amount of game elements you think you need to make you feel like you are the civilization you are playing as (what's the minimum for you to get the "Yes, I am civilization x" basically) ?

I would say:
1) city list
2) architectural style
3) ethnic skins for units (my Zulu warriors shouldn't look like West European men-at-arms)

 

[gdr_willter]

I would say:
1) city list
2) architectural style
3) ethnic skins for units (my Zulu warriors shouldn't look like West European men-at-arms)

The last option becomes way more important recently. I remember that I was completely okay with the same unit graphics in Civ 2 (not clear tho), but I will be definitely disappointed when I face the same situation in Civ 5,6,7.

 

[MasterPaw]

It's gradual
It can work with only a civ name and adjective but the identification with the historical counterpart will be greater if there is city list art and references to its history, mostly unique unit/buildings
The civ ability can work as well for example mongol having horses bonuses but civ are so complex you can find a lot of way to portray them and in the end I see the gameplay bonuses

Not being able to make use of your ability is bad though, that's why I dislike not every civ being able to make most of religion if they missed founding it, or when you have unique cav but no horses around or dont have time to use it
The civ switch mechanic can counter this (although the restriction make it less potent than in HK) as it allows to pick bonuses from your current situation and so it's your choice to take a civ you won't be able to use effectively

 

[Mr Jon of Cheam]

I can say one thing for sure: I have much more fun in Civ VI if I really lean into a civ's design and play them as they were intended, even if it is suboptimal.

 

[untitledjuan]

Most people on this thread have mentioned the importance of city lists and I agree that it contributes a lot to immersion and feeling like you're playing as a specific nation/group/people etc.

That's one of my main concerns regarding the civ switching mechanic in Civ7, it will be weird to see a Greek city under a Mexican or German civ at the end of the game, especially if it has never been conquered by anyone else before.

 

[chaosprophet]

I don't think much is needed for the player to think they're playing the civ, albeit that varies from player to player.

But the main reason for civ uniques abilities/units/structures isn't to make the civ feel more like the original civilization it is based of, but instead to give the game more replayability. If you don't have unique content, then gameplay wise every game will be very similar, Of course some things still can make it feel different like how the map end up, where your adversaries are on the map, but overall your civ will always play the same, and so will all opponents, so their leader and civ names won't really make a difference, not needing different strategies to deal with different civs.

It would be like a fighting game with only one character to play. Of course every match still have differences depending on how it flows, but if you have always the same move sets and so does the enemies, than things become repetitive much faster, even if that one character has a huge move set with lots of possible moves to use.

 

[Verified_Confection_Being]

I'm surprised music and ambience hasn't been mentioned yet, I think that's really important, probably only behind city names for me, a little ahead of city graphics and territory colour

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

I often turn off the music, so it's not very high priority for me.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

I never had problems with immersion in Civ 1 or 2, so like a few others here have stated, having and playing to the civ's "uniques" is rather irrelevant to me. Personally, I'd rather have the uniqueness of my civ evolve from the actual gameplay, anyway, rather than being dictated by the dev team's interpretation of the real world civilization

So for me, it's city lists, first and foremost, and then artstyle differences secondarily.

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

I never had problems with immersion in Civ 1 or 2, so like a few others here have stated, having and playing to the civ's "uniques" is rather irrelevant to me. Personally, I'd rather have the uniqueness of my civ evolve from the actual gameplay, anyway, rather than being dictated by the dev team's interpretation of the real world civilization

Then Millennia is a game you should definitely look at

 

[Uberfrog]

Appropriate art is probably the biggest thing to me. City lists are obviously important, but feel so easy to implement that they are almost trivial. In any case, Civ 7's ages will mean that we will of course have cities belonging to previous civilisations, so that has already become less central.

On the other hand I really disliked having white, European looking units for everybody. Civ 4 started to introduce regional city and unit art, and in fact one of the main reasons I joined these forums years ago was to download custom unit art to add more diversity.

I love what they are doing with generic unit and city art in Civ 7, and think that, visually, it is the most important thing to me to feel I am playing as a particular culture.

 

[I was NC]

Believable and consequential abilities and unique units. VI's "All Roads Lead to Rome" and Legions are great examples. (Certainly are some not good ones.) Surprised to see city lists, I Google them and retype.

 

[j51]

City and building art, city lists, unit art, and then uniques in that order. I usually mod any of those that don’t feel right to that civ for me.

I really hope there’s an option to change all city names on an era transition, or at least that it’s easily moddable.

 

[Uberfrog]

There should just always be the option to change your city’s name at any time. No reason not to let the player do that. Even if I am happy with my civ’s city list, I might want to rename my port city to a city that was a port in real life, etc.

 

[Nikolai II]

I often turn off the music, so it's not very high priority for me.

Same here.

There should just always be the option to change your city’s name at any time. No reason not to let the player do that. Even if I am happy with my civ’s city list, I might want to rename my port city to a city that was a port in real life, etc.

Agreed. I hope to see it ingame.

 

[j51]

There should just always be the option to change your city’s name at any time. No reason not to let the player do that. Even if I am happy with my civ’s city list, I might want to rename my port city to a city that was a port in real life, etc.

That too, but I’d really like it if every civs city names changed each era

 

[gdr_willter]

That too, but I’d really like it if every civs city names changed each era

It would be good choice for the mood of current civ you play, but finding and remembering all settlements again will be a bad experience.

 

[Krikkit1]

That too, but I’d really like it if every civs city names changed each era

Players should have complete control of how their civ’s and cities’ names change through the ages.