Tides of Crimson (FANTASY MOD)

I'm currently using the Hobbits in a pretty good run after forfeiting three games prior, where there was no chance for survival :(
What really helped me here was that I got some Dragons early and that all the other civs are warring against each other using me in the middle as transit^^
Really surprised that they ignored me

If it continues to go well, I maybe even post it as a story. This feat should be celebrated.

Bugs so far:
+ Pearl Drake does not have "Teleport"
+ Raku does not have Bombarding
+ Anarchy still lets you build and research
 
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And any more of either spell that I get between now and D-Day will be added to the small pile in that town (I also have a couple of Runners permanently fortified in front of that town, to prevent the rats from burrowing under the strait).
GREAT strategy! I definitely would not have thought of that.

I'd happily build and send over Rainmakers if they had R=2, though (hint, hint! ;) )

Haha I hear ya sir! I'll consider it. I still want to keep the Archers Vs. Artillery differences, but let me see if an adjustment will work.

I kinda wish that FXS had programmed an intermediate rally-point option, which allowed setting "Regional RPs" to gather units from all the nearest towns, in addition to — or possibly instead of — the extremes of setting RPs individually for each town (which is tedious), vs. sending all units to a single Continental RP (which is near-useless, prior to rails, and still pretty tedious afterwards)

I understand, maybe this could be something we can ask Flintlock to see if he can get up and running. Not sure how difficult this would be to code.
 
I meant that by building the scorpa mound in the second or third city I can avoid the necessity to build a shrine, saving on its 40 shield cost while getting the same effect (=expanding city radius).
Gotcha, nice thinking here! Do you usually build the scorpa mound in this second/third city directly after building a first unit defender?

Let's say 2 stars until Emperor, 1,5 star for Demigod and Deity, but I stick with 1 star for Sid.

That's fair, I can see this as a pretty accurate assessment. :) let me see if I can make changes to mitigate this issue.
 
(Can't remember if assimilation-probability is solely a function of the setting for the current government Sphere, or whether e.g. total Culture also affects the RNG'd assimilation-calculation?)

I would assume it's the former, just a straight calculation of assimilation chance. But would love to know for sure as well!
 
I'm currently using the Hobbits in a pretty good run after forfeiting three games prior, where there was no chance for survival :(
What really helped me here was that I got some Dragons early and that all the other civs are warring against each other using me in the middle as transit^^
Really surprised that they ignored me

If it continues to go well, I maybe even post it as a story. This feat should be celebrated.

Bugs so far:
+ Pearl Drake does not have "Teleport"
+ Raku does not have Bombarding
+ Anarchy still lets you build and research

Sounds like a good/lucky break not being targeted! But maybe your dragons put fear into the other civs' hearts?!

Would love to hear the story! Agreed that this should be celebrated lol.

Thanks for the bug reports! I'll check on those when I'm back at my main computer!
 
I think so, but I can't remember for sure off the top of my head. That particular game was at Regent, but I usually play (epic games) at Emp/DG, so I'm also more accustomed to losing town to flips, than gaining them!

I do know that when you get towns in peace treaties, then the citizens convert instantly, but I suspect you have to wait for assimilation in a flipped town.

OTOH, if you're playing a game where you're getting flips in your favour, is assimilation going to happen faster as well...?

(Can't remember if assimilation-probability is solely a function of the setting for the current government Sphere, or whether e.g. total Culture also affects the RNG'd assimilation-calculation?)

Just when I was not sure, I got my first cities through culture flip
So they do keep the foreign citizens. So with this game mod, it's a win^^

I think the assimilation is partly based on RNG, sometimes they convert easily (and with Murphy Law they always convert when I try to build "free" units haha) and sometimes not so much.


GREAT strategy! I definitely would not have thought of that.



Haha I hear ya sir! I'll consider it. I still want to keep the Archers Vs. Artillery differences, but let me see if an adjustment will work.

Basic warefare tactics against those pesky skaven. they really got an upgrade in gameplay, so I probably need to revise my opinion about them. especially in the early-middle game they are quite the conquerors, wow

I think the current archers - artillery is pretty balanced and not really an issue. it makes for some nice tactics maneuvering them around in offensive/defensive.

Gotcha, nice thinking here! Do you usually build the scorpa mound in this second/third city directly after building a first unit defender?

That's fair, I can see this as a pretty accurate assessment. :) let me see if I can make changes to mitigate this issue.

Yes pretty much. Sometimes I build settlers if there is still free land.

Give the hobbits a tower in the mid-game (7 def, keep the -1 hp but give counter-attack) and maybe also some cheap buildable missiles with 1 range and 2 attack range (you can describe it in the pedia with that hobbits love to lay traps)

Sounds like a good/lucky break not being targeted! But maybe your dragons put fear into the other civs' hearts?!

Would love to hear the story! Agreed that this should be celebrated lol.

Thanks for the bug reports! I'll check on those when I'm back at my main computer!

the dragons are pretty good defenders, of course given that there are no other units in that plot. I think you used a special unit (spy?) and that is why attackers always attack the other units first? maybe you can write it in the pedia so that players can know.

yes my current game is a very interesting one with a lot of luck involved (trade, war, etc) going in my favour and of course a bit of AI exploiting^^. but there were (and still are) a lot of difficulties to overcome. i just noticed that the production builds are only buildable in a specific order and i'm missing the stone resource :(
next time i shouldn't use the 80% water map haha
 
I understand, maybe this could be something we can ask Flintlock to see if he can get up and running. Not sure how difficult this would be to code.
For every completed unit-build, the game would have to measure and compare the distances from that town to all the regional-RP locations, in order to determine which one was the closest (in terms of overland path-distance, rather than total turns, otherwise railroads could/would screw it up!).

Even if it was relatively simple to do this with injected code, it would still cost additional interturn processing time (like for trade-route calulations). Which might be why FXS didn't do it in the first place...
 
Just when I was not sure, I got my first cities through culture flip
So they do keep the foreign citizens. So with this game mod, it's a win^^

I think the assimilation is partly based on RNG, sometimes they convert easily (and with Murphy Law they always convert when I try to build "free" units haha) and sometimes not so much.




Basic warefare tactics against those pesky skaven. they really got an upgrade in gameplay, so I probably need to revise my opinion about them. especially in the early-middle game they are quite the conquerors, wow

I think the current archers - artillery is pretty balanced and not really an issue. it makes for some nice tactics maneuvering them around in offensive/defensive.



Yes pretty much. Sometimes I build settlers if there is still free land.

Give the hobbits a tower in the mid-game (7 def, keep the -1 hp but give counter-attack) and maybe also some cheap buildable missiles with 1 range and 2 attack range (you can describe it in the pedia with that hobbits love to lay traps)



the dragons are pretty good defenders, of course given that there are no other units in that plot. I think you used a special unit (spy?) and that is why attackers always attack the other units first? maybe you can write it in the pedia so that players can know.

yes my current game is a very interesting one with a lot of luck involved (trade, war, etc) going in my favour and of course a bit of AI exploiting^^. but there were (and still are) a lot of difficulties to overcome. i just noticed that the production builds are only buildable in a specific order and i'm missing the stone resource :(
next time i shouldn't use the 80% water map haha

Great to know about the city flips, thanks! I'll include that in the civpedia. Want to run a few of my own tests as well regarding flips to add more info.

Indeed the Skaven have been upgraded significantly, as have most races that were weak in older versions (1.6). I.e. the lizardmen are now a little stronger, as are the goblins, mountain dwarves with their unit upgrades, moon elves with their Hunter Elder, Archons that no longer have issues settling cities, etc. Etc. I would recommend giving some of the 'old races' a try once once you have completed your analysis of the new races! Would love to hear your thoughts!

Yes, I like the dichotomy between archers/artillery as well. Glad you agree. If I do make tweaks, it would be very minor.

I have thought about adding a defender for the hobbits, but also love your idea of 'traps' and just may implement that!

I'll add the note about dragons defending last in the civpedia. I believe TJS has also pointed this out to me. This is due to the "king" flag on these units, to ensure that the player/AI can't build them from cities.

No stone at all on map? Or just none that you have access to? I've learned from Suede that strange settings (80% water) can really mess with the balance of resources. :)
 
For every completed unit-build, the game would have to measure and compare the distances from that town to all the regional-RP locations, in order to determine which one was the closest (in terms of overland path-distance, rather than total turns, otherwise railroads could/would screw it up!).

Even if it was relatively simple to do this with injected code, it would still cost additional interturn processing time (like for trade-route calulations). Which might be why FXS didn't do it in the first place...

Good point. I don't think we would want anything that increases the time between turns!!! Haha

I've also updated the Harbors to small wonders as you've suggested, to reduce turn lag from AI computations. Seems to have helped. Thanks again!
 
Yes, I like the dichotomy between archers/artillery as well. Glad you agree. If I do make tweaks, it would be very minor.
I have no problem with the conceptual dichotomy, I just think the R/F stats have been assigned backwards.

ToC gives most ranged-weapon foot-units R=2 and F=1, while most siege-engine-type units (and many ships) have R=1 and F>=2. Which is exactly the opposite of such weapons' capabilities in "reality".

(I do agree that lethal [land-]bombardment should mostly be limited to the foot-units — and the area-effect Spells — though)

But hey, your mod, your rules... ;)
I've also updated the Harbors to small wonders as you've suggested, to reduce turn lag from AI computations. Seems to have helped. Thanks again!
Errrmmm...

Having played out my Amazonian game*, I was actually going to suggest/confirm not doing that. Because in the final stages, I ran into exactly the problem you predicted/ objection you raised, that having the Harbour as an SW could/would then prevent overseas territories from trading resources with the homeland.

*
Spoiler Final report :
Won by Domination due to multiple WonderGarden-induced border-pops on the T398 interturn, taking me from 64% to 66% land+coast (I already had >80% pop, due to the AI-Civs whipping/ drafting/ building pop-costing units).

The border-expansion happened shortly after expunging the Skaven, and while making speedy inroads into the Troll and Brehton remnants — and compensated for my having been routinely gifting the latter captured towns [back] to the Chaos Dwarves and High Elves, respectively, to slow down incoming troops, speed up my advance, and reduce my WW burden, which was getting pretty heavy by that point
This game was on a Standard Continents map (2 landmasses plus 1-2 tiny islands; 12 Civs to start), generated from one of the early v.1.8x .biqs, where Harbours were already SWs (I think you switched it later — and now you've switched back?). So although I had one Harbour left on my home-continent, I couldn't build another in the former Skaven territory.

I did initially have a trade-route to the other continent — and actually had access to 6 Luxes at one point, in all towns! — but it was going through someone else's Harbour-SW, most likely the Goblins'. They were the strongest AI-Civ that also had well-developed coastal-towns (the Chaos Dwarves were still doing OK, but had lost most of their coastline to the Brehton invaders), and when I attacked the Brehton (just before the demise of the Skaven), they turned out to have an MPP with the Goblins, and I immediately lost all the intercontinental trade for the remainder of the game.

I would therefore like to resubmit my suggestion to add "[Resource] Merchant" SWs, which would all become available in the mid- to late game, as a cheap (10–20 shields?), coastal, water-trade allowing building, requiring the respective Resource to be in the BFC, which could be built quickly to allow shipment of goods between landmasses.
Spoiler Nitty gritty :
It would obviously be impractical to add a Merchant for every Resource in ToC, but 1 Merchant for, say, 3–5 of each of the most common Strat- and Lux-Resources which are visible to most/all tribes — or 1 (Strat- or Lux-)Resource per terrain-type — should still be feasible without exceeding ToC's 256 total available building-slots(?).

This would give each surviving Civ potentially up to ~10 Merchant-types in total — but likely far fewer than that in practice, due to the resource-in-BFC requirement, which should inherently limit the total number of Merchant-builds (and hence trade-route calculations), even on Large/Huge maps.

You could probably use a single PRTO entry for all the different Merchant-types; and for graphics, I would suggest re-using the Trading-post graphics as the Merchant_small/large icons, and maybe the Wondersplash for the epic-game AdamSmiths GW — unless you can think of something more appropriate?
And now I am going to start re-installing Civ3 via GOG (and then all my mods, including ToC)...
 
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I have no problem with the conceptual dichotomy, I just think the R/F stats have been assigned backwards.

ToC gives most ranged-weapon foot-units R=2 and F=1, while most siege-engine-type units (and many ships) have R=1 and F>=2. Which is exactly the opposite of such weapons' capabilities in "reality".

(I do agree that lethal [land-]bombardment should mostly be limited to the foot-units — and the area-effect Spells — though)

From a "reality" view you do have a valid point because artillery really has a wider range. It would however affect the gameplay when artillery were given R=2, F=2 (just my assumption, but not sure how AI will use it exactly)

on offense (if the defender does not have cavalry) you can just bomb in safety and then swoop in with your cavalry
on defense the attacker with no cavalry will basically never reach the defending artillery to take it out

Or do you mean, that artillery gets R=2, F=1 and then archery gets R=1, F=2?
 
Alright, that would not break the gameplay then, just change it. Maybe even dramatically. I say it from experience because the Undead has basically an early F=2 archer, and it dominates until the endgame. Because archer with F=2, assuming they keep the lethality, basically is an artillery with wider range und lethality. They will be very difficult as defender because they can singlehandily decimate the attacking troops while cooping up in the cities.

I for myself am very happy with the current situation. But what I would propose, if there is really a "reality" focused change needed:

Artillery:
solely range 2, cannot bomb the range 1 (reality= artillery is not used in direct/near/melee battle but only bomb the far away targets otherwise there will be friendly fire/collateral damage).
It should have F=2 (or even more) but can only deal non-lethal damage up until a certain HP threshold because it is not bombs and you cannot eliminate all the enemies with it.
Artillery can be destroyed by other artillery (because they are heavy and thus are a very easy target).
Cannot have any direct attack.
Has very low Def .
Can be targeted as priority during artillery/cavalry attacks.

Archers: solely range 1, frequency 1 (F=2 for elven units).
Has counter-attack but very low def (basically archers, who are attacked only has one chance to loose their arrows before switching to a dagger).
Will be attacked as a priority during enemy cavalry/infantry attacks.
 
Artillery:
solely range 2, cannot bomb the range 1
Unfortunately the Civ3 Editors do not allow a 'minimum range' to be set, only a maximum.
Archers: solely range 1, frequency 1 (F=2 for elven units).
I wouldn't have a problem with F(iring rate)=2 for all Archer units, but if they stay with lethal land-bombard, I'd reduce the B(ombardment)-values (Elvish Archers could either have F=3, or higher-than-average B-values).

And yeah, I agree: low melée-defence (D-value) for most/all of them, maybe also targeted attack against M=1 infantry-type units, but not M=2 fast units, or dedicated bombardment-units
 
Thank you both for you both for you great insight and ability to think outside the box. Love the ideas being thrown around!

I agree that realism is important. Would love to have realism if it didn't take away from some core mechanics. I like to think of archers as "snipers" of sort, able to pick out enemies from afar and take them down, albeit with lesser firepower. They are good at firing on defense and in open territory, and the extra range seems to fit this. I think civs with early archers that can shoot down Krogs/enemies from a 2 range is hella fun, and it seems less fitting to hunt down enemies in open areas with siege weapons that have 2 range. The big lumbering siege machines seem more fitting to me, gameplay wise (not realism wise), with higher firepower and lower range to make them more of city-siege tools.
Along the line of realism, we could also make an argument that archers should indeed have 1 Firepower and Siege units should have 2 Firepower, since a large crushing boulder should hurt more than a single arrow. I think there are things that are both realistic and unrealistic about the current ToC dichotomy, but what I hope is the case is that it is fun/balanced. It makes you use each in different strategic circumstances.
If we were 100% concerned about realism, then town populations should go up by thousands or tens of thousands and not by 1, and each turn in game should last about 30 minutes and not cycle through 1 full "year" (or several years per turn as in the epic game). It seems odd that a unit can move only 1 tile every "year", but we accept it because it's a game and it's fun. :)

I really love the idea of "minimum range" that Toma brought up, but unfortunately, as TJS correctly mentions, there is no way to edit this. Hopefully one day when I can catch wind of more C++ knowledge I'll be able to change this. Ideally, I would love for Siege/Artillery units to have a range of 3, but not be able to fire at enemies within 1 or 2 tiles. This would fit more in line with the understandable desire for realism (and mine as well) while still keeping archers and Siege units very different.

Regarding ships, almost all ships that have ranged attack should have arrange of 2, not 1. I believe the only ships with low range are the boats that shoot flames instead of projectiles. TJS, Are you experiencing otherwise?


and compensated for my having been routinely gifting the latter captured towns [back] to the Chaos Dwarves and High Elves, respectively, to slow down incoming troops, speed up my advance, and reduce my WW burden, which was getting pretty heavy by that point

How did gifting cities allow you to speed up your advance? Asking since i'm not familiar with as many advanced strategies as you are.

This game was on a Standard Continents map (2 landmasses plus 1-2 tiny islands; 12 Civs to start), generated from one of the early v.1.8x .biqs, where Harbours were already SWs (I think you switched it later — and now you've switched back?). So although I had one Harbour left on my home-continent, I couldn't build another in the former Skaven territory.

I did initially have a trade-route to the other continent — and actually had access to 6 Luxes at one point, in all towns! — but it was going through someone else's Harbour-SW, most likely the Goblins'. They were the strongest AI-Civ that also had well-developed coastal-towns (the Chaos Dwarves were still doing OK, but had lost most of their coastline to the Brehton invaders), and when I attacked the Brehton (just before the demise of the Skaven), they turned out to have an MPP with the Goblins, and I immediately lost all the intercontinental trade for the remainder of the game.

I would therefore like to resubmit my suggestion to add "[Resource] Merchant" SWs, which would all become available in the mid- to late game, as a cheap (10–20 shields?), coastal, water-trade allowing building, requiring the respective Resource to be in the BFC, which could be built quickly to allow shipment of goods between landmasses.

I actually had small harbors as only city improvements, up until about version 2.7, when they were changed to small wonders. I'm hoping you can shed some light on how to set up the merchant harbors you are suggesting. This is a great thought, but wouldn't every harbor (even the merchant harbors) allow trade of ALL resources to another continent and not just some? For example, if i build a 'furs' merchant that requires furs in the big fat cross, and another 'furs' merchant in an adjacent continent to trade with it, wouldn't both both merchant harbors still allow for the exchange of ALL resources between continents, due to the global traits of the "allows water trade" flag?

I for myself am very happy with the current situation. But what I would propose, if there is really a "reality" focused change needed:

Artillery:
solely range 2, cannot bomb the range 1 (reality= artillery is not used in direct/near/melee battle but only bomb the far away targets otherwise there will be friendly fire/collateral damage).
It should have F=2 (or even more) but can only deal non-lethal damage up until a certain HP threshold because it is not bombs and you cannot eliminate all the enemies with it.
Artillery can be destroyed by other artillery (because they are heavy and thus are a very easy target).
Cannot have any direct attack.
Has very low Def .
Can be targeted as priority during artillery/cavalry attacks.

Archers: solely range 1, frequency 1 (F=2 for elven units).
Has counter-attack but very low def (basically archers, who are attacked only has one chance to loose their arrows before switching to a dagger).
Will be attacked as a priority during enemy cavalry/infantry attacks.


I wouldn't have a problem with F(iring rate)=2 for all Archer units, but if they stay with lethal land-bombard, I'd reduce the B(ombardment)-values (Elvish Archers could either have F=3, or higher-than-average B-values).

And yeah, I agree: low melée-defence (D-value) for most/all of them, maybe also targeted attack against M=1 infantry-type units, but not M=2 fast units, or dedicated bombardment-units

Again, love these ideas. If I could break the hard-coded ranged attacks and allow for minimum ranges to be set, I could see this getting implemented! Also like both your ideas to make Elven archers stronger through Firepower (some are currently stronger through ranged attack value). hmmm.... If I can find a way to balance this, would love to find a way to implement this as well. Still want to make sure they aren't overpowered or become an exploit.
Very interesting ideas about the Focus Attacks based on type of ranged unit (siege or archer). Would take some time to implement but could make things interesting. Will add it to my list of things to look into!
 
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I like to think of archers as "snipers" of sort, able to pick out enemies from afar and take them down, albeit with lesser firepower. They are good at firing on defense and in open territory, and the extra range seems to fit this. I think civs with early archers that can shoot down Krogs/enemies from a 2 range is hella fun, and it seems less fitting to hunt down enemies in open areas with siege weapons that have 2 range.
Why is it less fitting to hit Krogs with siege weapons than Archers, though?

Also, IIRC, a lot of the more powerful siege weapons require a large number of shields, frequently also 1 or more Strategic resource (e.g. Lumber, Iron, Saltpeter, etc.), sometimes population-points, and usually later techs, which means that it's very unlikely that they'd be built for Krog-hunting!

(Not to mention, that at higher difficulty levels, most of the Krog-villages will be long gone by that point!)
Along the line of realism, we could also make an argument that archers should indeed have 1 Firepower and Siege units should have 2 Firepower, since a large crushing boulder should hurt more than a single arrow.
Just to be clear, when I'm talking about bombard-capable units:

B = bombardment strength. This is the "rock or flames or arrow?" statistic, which is matched against a defender's D-value (when bombarding a unit on another tile) or an attacker's A-value (for defensive-bombardment, when the unit's own tile is attacked), i.e. how likely is the unit to inflict damage on the target?
R = range (maximum no. of tiles), which is self-explanatory
F = firing rate, i.e. the maximum HP that the target might potentially lose, if the bombarding unit's B-value wins over the target's D-value, for each bombardment-attack made by one unit (on defence, F -- and hence potential HP-loss -- is always capped at 1)

So in my discussion with tomma above, we didn't talk about B-values at all, only R- and F-values. And my assertion is that (IMHO, of course! ;) ), compared to siege engines, archer-type units should have low(er) range (and bombardment-strength), but higher firing-rates.

I guess the essential question is whether HP is regarded as the health of an individual fighter, or the collective manpower of a troop...?
This is a great thought, but wouldn't every harbor (even the merchant harbors) allow trade of ALL resources to another continent and not just some?
Yes! That's the idea!

So you could build your ("expensive") Harbour SW on your home continent, and then one "cheap" Merchant (of any available type) on each of your overseas landmasses, to allow trade with that landmass.
For example, if i build a 'furs' merchant that requires furs in the big fat cross, and another 'furs' merchant in an adjacent continent to trade with it,
I think you maybe overlooked where I said that the Merchants would (also) all be set as Small Wonders?

That would mean that each Civ would only be able to build one of each Merchant-type (at most), across all their coastal towns -- because that Merchant-type would then be removed from the build-lists of all that Civ's other potential sites. So assuming you'd already built your Harbour-SW on your home continent during the early game, you could then build, say, a Furs-Merchant SW on another landmass (continent or island) to allow water-trade to (every connected town on) that landmass. But then for the third (and fourth and fifth) landmass you occupied, you would have to build a different Merchant-type (each time).

And since not all resources would be available near coastal sites (due to random distribution), nor would all resources have corresponding Merchants (to minimise additions to the building-list, not to mention limiting the number of potentially allowable trade-routes), there would then likely be occasions where the human player might have to think a little bit carefully about which Merchant they wanted to build where.

Obviously the AI would likely not be able to deal with that last consideration, but since the AI always settles near resources when it can, each AI-tribe would likely always be able to build at least one Merchant-type somewhere (even if on their home landmass, defeating the object). And if/when someone else captured that town/location later, destroying the Merchant (AFAIK, SWs are destroyed on capture -- but this could be guaranteed by giving the Merchant +1 Culture), the victor would then be able to replace it quickly -- provided that they had not already built one of that type elsewhere.

Also, as Civs got eliminated, the total number of Merchants which could be built, would also be reduced accordingly. Essentially, 1 Harbour-hub per each of the many Civs in the early game, would be replaced by multiple Merchant-hubs, but for only a few Civs, during the late game.
How did gifting cities allow you to speed up your advance? Asking since i'm not familiar with as many advanced strategies as you are.
Any town which had been 'pre-owned' by the Civ I gifted it to, immediately got its Cultural borders popped 'back' to where they had been prior to capture by the Brehton/Skaven. And since I had an RoP with the Dwarves and the Elves, this often meant a quicker journey for my healthy units (including my Artillery!) to the next town on my target-list.

It also meant that I didn't have to garrison the gifted town myself, and the Brehton couldn't reach the captured town as easily over the following interturn (which in turn meant that I didn't have to worry about accumulating more WW-points for losing troops, or the town, to an attack -- or a flip).
 
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SWs are definitely not always destroyed on capture. In my Dwarf game I managed to nab all of the Earth sphere SWs from the Wood Elves, and they kept producing units and spells as well. I was also Earth Sphere, and had built my SWs in my capital already, so I had double the SWs after the conquest.
 
SWs are definitely not always destroyed on capture. In my Dwarf game I managed to nab all of the Earth sphere SWs from the Wood Elves, and they kept producing units and spells as well. I was also Earth Sphere, and had built my SWs in my capital already, so I had double the SWs after the conquest.
Good point!

Now that you mention it, I think I finished my Amazonian game with 2 Earth Towers (or Nodes?) as well, having built the first in my Capital, and then capturing a second from the Skaven (not that I got anything from it before game-over!).

So Merchants (if implemented) would definitely need to give +1 Culture as well, to ensure their destruction-on-capture.
 
is it less fitting to hit Krogs with siege weapons than Archers, though?
Just an opinion. :) Seems more right to me, towards my goal of making archers higher ranged "sniping" type units with lethal bombard.

(Not to mention, that at higher difficulty levels, most of the Krog-villages will be long gone by that point!)
Agreed, good point!

So in my discussion with tomma above, we didn't talk about B-values at all, only R- and F-values. And my assertion is that (IMHO, of course! ;) ), compared to siege engines, archer-type units should have low(er) range (and bombardment-strength), but higher firing-rates.

I guess the essential question is whether HP is regarded as the health of an individual fighter, or the collective manpower of a troop...?

I was also referring firing rate aka firepower. Sorry if I made it seem like i was talking about something else. Good question here, i like to think of HP as the health of an individual fighter, at least for this mod.

So you could build your ("expensive") Harbour SW on your home continent, and then one "cheap" Merchant (of any available type) on each of your overseas landmasses, to allow trade with that landmass.
Ah i see what you are saying. Thanks for clarifying! I"m debating between this and just allowing a second small wonder (not resource dependent) as a harbor. This way, the max harbors would still be two.

Obviously the AI would likely not be able to deal with that last consideration, but since the AI always settles near resources when it can, each AI-tribe would likely always be able to build at least one Merchant-type somewhere (even if on their home landmass, defeating the object). And if/when someone else captured that town/location later, destroying the Merchant (AFAIK, SWs are destroyed on capture -- but this could be guaranteed by giving the Merchant +1 Culture), the victor would then be able to replace it quickly -- provided that they had not already built one of that type elsewhere.

I can also see how this would work. Interesting that you point out that the AI would still be able to use this. I agree! Thanks for these great ideas!


Any town which had been 'pre-owned' by the Civ I gifted it to, immediately got its Cultural borders popped 'back' to where they had been prior to capture by the Brehton/Skaven. And since I had an RoP with the Dwarves and the Elves, this often meant a quicker journey for my healthy units (including my Artillery!) to the next town on my target-list.

It also meant that I didn't have to garrison the gifted town myself, and the Brehton couldn't reach the captured town as easily over the following interturn (which in turn meant that I didn't have to worry about accumulating more WW-points for losing troops, or the town, to an attack -- or a flip).

Great strategy on the rights of passage here! very cool. But doesn't isn't gifting towns to your allies also dangerous, lest they decide to turn their back on you? Again, asking because i don't know the answer.
 
SWs are definitely not always destroyed on capture. In my Dwarf game I managed to nab all of the Earth sphere SWs from the Wood Elves, and they kept producing units and spells as well. I was also Earth Sphere, and had built my SWs in my capital already, so I had double the SWs after the conquest.

Thanks for pointing this out, i wonder if this problem is only specific to Sphere buildings and the few 'fake' great wonders that are actually small wonders (i.e. Icicle Throne).


Good point!

Now that you mention it, I think I finished my Amazonian game with 2 Earth Towers (or Nodes?) as well, having built the first in my Capital, and then capturing a second from the Skaven (not that I got anything from it before game-over!).

So Merchants (if implemented) would definitely need to give +1 Culture as well, to ensure their destruction-on-capture.

So giving +1 culture to a small wonder will ensure that it is destroyed when the city is captured? Judging from what has been happening with Earth Sphere small wonders, i'm not sure this is the case? All Earth Sphere small wonders provide +1 culture but seem to not be destroyed upon capture, from your and Arexander's experience noted here.
Also, looking at my files, the only small wonder in the game that does not give culture is the Gold Mine. All other small wonders give off at least 1 culture. I don't think that culture affects whether a small wonder will be destroyed upon city capture. Which begs to question... what does determine this?

Again, maybe only sphere buildings actually remain after a city is captured, but all other small wonders are destroyed? thoughts?
 
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