Tides of Crimson (FANTASY MOD)

[tjs282]

Hesitant to over motivate the AI to build Harbors, due to fear of lagging the game due to many trade route calculations between turns

The slowdown in the epic game is mainly due to the fact that a water-trade enabling Harbor can be built in every single coastal town -- and they are so cheap (and so useful) that this outcome is almost inevitable by the late game. And then, during those characteristic late-game (MPP-driven) world wars, towns will often be changing hands (sometimes several times!) during the AIs' moves, forcing multiple re-calculations over the interturn.

Conversely, since Harbors are SWs in ToC, there cannot be more than one per tribe, e.g. on a Std map with 12 civs, that's a maximum of 66 (= [(12 x 12) - 12] / 2) possible transoceanic trading routes / partnerships (more routes once the Overseas Harbors start getting built, but there will likely also be fewer Civs left alive by that point, so it should even out). So late game slowdown due to trade-route re-calculation seems like it should be much less of a problem in ToC (IMHO! ).

Also, "preventing" overseas trading breaks a substantial mechanic of the Civ3 game engine. It's not just Lux-happiness -- if a Civ has no way to access the Strategic resource(s) needed for their more advanced units/ buildings, that makes them much weaker/ more likely to get overrun by a neighbour -- which in turn increases the probability of producing a "runaway AI" who simply lucked out on their spawn-point (in several other recent games, that's been the Ossiri!).

 

[haluu]

Great points TJS! You are right about the max harbors in ToC being low enough to support AI builds in all cities, although I have seen the AI build harbors in my games. Regardless, I'll update for next version to increase the likelihood of building them. Thanks again!

 

[Xalarak]

Hi, im here from Youtube I really love the mod so far and would like to discuss/share my trough about ! The mod is amazing it's one of the best IMO, I really like the music, the gameplay, the idea behind... The easter eggs (wc3, warhammer, lotr etc...) First off I didn't played yet all races or discovered every mechanic so I will probably miss some things for now but I have some feedback and technicaly ''questions''. Some are suggestions so it doesn't mean you should change it but maybe consider it if you like the idea

-Kommando : I love the orcs, played them the most. I really like the idea of the race (who have a little mix beetwin fantasy and ''tech'' like the iron horde for example). In the case of the Kommando I found the unit a bit less performing that her counterparts (ie : grunt upgraded 2 and basic spearmen). If we analyze the unit, he got 7 atk (same as upgraded grunt), 6 defense (same as spearmen) but doesn't get the +2 bonus hp that the grunt have. He also cost way more than the spearmen so you always build spearmen or grunt instead of him. His only ''difference'' is the fact he can build forteress which is not useless but certainly not that worth. On paper you doesn't build him very often, especially since you have the Boar and the grunt for offense that are doing way better. His versability and amphibious is not BAD (especially when you reach steel tech) but in alchemy era with the grunt upgrade tier 2 you always ignore him because he is less effective. What I recommand to make him more interesting is to give him his own upgrade with Orcish Horde to match a bit the hp of the Grunt and/or give him a bit more stats, could be either offensive or defensive.To balance that if it's too powerful, maybe allow to build upgrade Kommando only with iron ressource. Since he has afull plate armour would make sence !

-Sneacky git : Only cost 10 ? Since he is ''quite'' powerful I wonder if it was volontuary. Technicaly you unlock him a bit late (for his stats) so it might explain why he cost so low. More a question than a suggestion here !

-Beastmen color : I wonder if the pink/rose like this is really great on them. You have the ''dark brown'' colour avaiable for them instead which is different from trolls and skaven.

-Champion : I wonder why this unit ? It doesn't have any link with lizards since it's a ''space marine''. It's a weird design IMO for lizardmen race. It is normal ? If yes why ? Loreful reason ?

-Nightbringer : Just need to update the description, it say ''night elves'' instead of dark elves !

-Dark Elves color : I don't know you personnaly but the ''purple'' fit better for them. I've tested and it's better than lavander, you also have 1 purple free ! You can also potentialy swap the Moon Elves actual purple with this one to give the actual moon elves purple to dark elves or you can give them lavender and it's basicly a swap. But this ''purple'' is also a good option

-Coastal gun : I recommand using this model https://forums.civfanatics.com/resources/fortress-cannon.12572/ for the Archon defensive forteress I like the idea of having powder unit for them, but I really feel that the bunker is a bit ''too tech'' for them. I mean they use legionnaries and bow then they have a WWII bunker !? x) This one fit perfectly in my opinion !

-Howitzer : Since Wood Elves are very linked to nature I wonder if they should use cannons. Maybe you could add a ent that throw boulder or a magic artillery for them ? Idk what models you have at your disposal tho but it's an idea. But I don't know if this unit really fit their overhaul theme.

-Bertha : With the same logic for Wood Elves, I don't really feel like Dark elves (looking their others units) are well rounded with ''irl'' canons. Where the High Elves model is really close to their style, this one is a bit weird to me. I think we could add them a magic ''dark'' artillery would maybe fit more their style since I don't think it will be easy to find a better alternative for them. Maybe they could have dwarfs slaves ? I saw same artillery models that you didn't used for them, since their ''base'' catapult is also human slaves this could work, so they could still use cannons but made by slaves ! Make sence with their playstyle IMO.

-Balrog : I think the unit could have a little buff especially in the defense side, the unit is amazing and is not bad but for it's cost I found it a bit meh especially in straight comparison of the Cave troll. For the upgraded version you can spawn the elite version of soul harvester instead of basic one ? Since you already have them unlocked... or maybe it was volontary so you need to upgrade them ? Make sence tho. But this could be a cool buff if you think it's worth. But it's mainly the stats of the Balrog that could be a bit improved ?

-Quarreler : Their third upgrade loose some ranged damage sadly ! Im pretty sure it's a ''bug'' and not intended

-Dark Elves and Chaos Dwarfs city design : Since you only have 5 design because of the game limitation I recommand to put them in ''evil'' design instead of ''barbarian'' (the one of goblins/orcs/trolls/etc...) since they are evil races I guess ?

-More incoming units for every race : So it's a question that is probably obvious since if I read patch notes you added more units to existing races in the past. But im curious to know if you plan to add in the near future more units to certain races etc... I saw some unused models in fantasy section or other mods models that could be interesting and fit !

-More races incoming : So... after Andori who is next ? Maybe a human nordic themed faction ? We doesn't have it and you have plenty of models for that ! Could be a very unique theme.

-Could you tell me more of what is planned for heroes ?

-Could you tell me more about the Azura ''world map''/scenario you are working on ?

-Can you make your own units ? I don't really know how units are made for civ3.

I will probably have more things to say the more I will play and test every race Thanks you for this amazing mod ! I also hope you will like my feedback, it's just my personnal guess.

 

[haluu]

Hi @Xalarak , so glad you made it to the forum! Welcome!

Great point about the Komando, will make adjustments, and possibly bump up their stats or give them a possibile upgrade.

Sneaky Gits should not be 10 shields, should be somewhere between 50-70. Great catch, will fix for next version!

Thanks for pointing out the colors of the races. Pink is very distinct and helps differentiate the beastmen from other races. Since there are several races (Iirc) that have a brownish color, I didn't want border lines hard to differentiate if race borders were adjacent. But I'll take a look at this!

The Champion graphic, as small as it is, could look like a green-skinned lizard, I never noticed space-marine-ness. Let me check on this one and see if there's a replacement graphic.

We'll update nightbringer description, thanks!

Let me check the color for night elves vs dark elves, thanks for the call-out!

Thanks for the suggestionns on artillery pieces/coastal fortress. You make a good point and we'll review this!

Balrog might just be upgraded for the next version, thanks again. Will have to check their ratings/shield efficiency vs Cave Trolls and similar units.

For the upgraded Quarreler's, I'm seeing that range stays at 2. Where are you seeing that it decreased?

For Dark Elves and Chaos Dwarves, current city design is already somewhat 'dark' in my opinion, albiet not as evil as the burning legion or undead, for instance. Our goal was to ensure that there was a more even distribution of city graphics. If if there's 5 city graphics, the amount of races with each type of graphic should be (almost) equal, so that maps aren't populated with all of the same city graphic type. I'll have to check on the distribution for this, thanks for bringing this up!
In version 3.0, there will also be unique 'citizens' on the city selection screen (where you choose what to build), and that is also limited to 5 total and aligns with city graphics type. So like undead citizens will actually look like undead citizens and not humans. So we might have to find a happy medium here regarding the city graphics.

Yes, there is a plan for new units for the existing races, although probably not for all races (at least not in the next version 3.0 yet... but soon after that version most likely).

Nordic faction is an interesting idea, and may come later! You're right, lots of graphics available. The 2 new races for the upcoming version 3.0 (probably 6-12 months away from being completed) will be the Gnolls and the Nation of Rohem (militaristic but good hearted humans). Unique traits for the new races are not 100% decided yet, but there are some things that we've already been working on. For example, the Gnolls will be the only race that can build Scent Trails (upgraded roads similar to railroads) to allow them to move faster and gain more from irrigation/mines.

Heroes will most likely only be present in version 3.0 in the Azura Map scenario or the mission (storyline) scenarios (mission 1, mission 2, etc). On the Azura Map, Heros will be able to level up, and each race will only have one. These storyline missions might have different gamplay than regular games, and some missions will have a more RPG feel (talk to NPC's, etc.). In the mission scenarios, they might have different abilities such as summoning spells. In missions, most games will fail if your heroe(s) dies.

The Azura World map will be an alternate gameplay mode to the standard random map mode. It will feature a full 'globe' of the world of Azura, with landscape that matches storyline elements. Great Wonders on the Azura map will only be able to be built in one location, not any city like in random map mode. For instance, Hope's Temple is a Hobbit Wonder, so only the tile on or near where the Hobbits start the game on the Azura map will be eligible to build Hope's Temple. We are also considering implementing other unique features on the Azura map, including Heroes and possibly Caravans (bringing a trade caravan to a certain location will net you additional gold), but not 100% sure about this yet. On the Azura map, we are also considering adding ship-traversable rivers. So basically wider rivers that Ships can actually go through, with Bridges at certain points so that land units can cross the wider rivers.

Yes, we are able to make our own units, but most units are conversions from non-civ games. For instance, the Water Elemental you see in the game is one we manually converted from Warcraft, and then created a unique attack animation for it. If you are interested in learning more about unit creation, let me know. It is quite tedious, to be honest.

Thanks again for all your great suggestions. One thing you will notice is that most players' suggestions do indeed find a way to make it onto the mod. This mod is a group effort, and everyone's input is valuable in shaping subsequent updates for this mod. Thanks so much! I'm sure we will keep sharing ideas back and forth!

 

[boho]

The Tides of Crimson config file throws an error in C3X R15. To paraphrase, "prevent_razing_by_ai_players" is not (or is no longer) a recognized option. The default C3X R15 ini doesn't include that option either. Maybe it was removed?

edit: Yeah, R14 has the following update note:

- NoRaze restriction applies to the human player as well as AIs

No idea why the previous option wasn't left in.

 

[boho]

Is the science advisor supposed to have custom blurbs about certain techs for this mod? I noticed he was recommending Alphabet when that wasn't an option and had no info on Inundation. Did I install wrong?

 

[tjs282]

No, you didn't install wrong, @haluu just hasn't yet (fully) customised a script.txt(?) file for TOC. So you're still getting the epic-game Science Advisor commentary. (But honestly, who even pays attention to what he "wants" to research?)

This is actually still problematic in the epic-game as well, IIRC -- I believe because Firaxis never properly updated the script.txt file to account for the removal of the "Radio" tech from the end of the Industrial Age in Conquests (vs. Vanilla/PTW). So a lot of the Modern Age Science Advisor's comments now refer to the wrong techs.

 

[haluu]

The Tides of Crimson config file throws an error in C3X R15. To paraphrase, "prevent_razing_by_ai_players" is not (or is no longer) a recognized option. The default C3X R15 ini doesn't include that option either. Maybe it was removed?

edit: Yeah, R14 has the following update note:

- NoRaze restriction applies to the human player as well as AIs

No idea why the previous option wasn't left in.

Yep, you got it. Since there have been additional releases of C3X after the most recent version of ToC, you might see a 'soft' error like this (still let's you play the game just fine IIRC). Let me know if you see anything game-breaking. Flintlock updated this variable name in later C3X versions.

No, you didn't install wrong, @haluu just hasn't yet (fully) customised a script.txt(?) file for TOC. So you're still getting the epic-game Science Advisor commentary. (But honestly, who even pays attention to what he "wants" to research?)

This is actually still problematic in the epic-game as well, IIRC -- I believe because Firaxis never properly updated the script.txt file to account for the removal of the "Radio" tech from the end of the Industrial Age in Conquests (vs. Vanilla/PTW). So a lot of the Modern Age Science Advisor's comments now refer to the wrong techs.

Correct, and this will be corrected in the next version of Tides of Crimson.

Didn't know about that thing with Radio for the epic game, how fascinating!

 

[Xalarak]

Hi @Xalarak , so glad you made it to the forum! Welcome!

Great point about the Komando, will make adjustments, and possibly bump up their stats or give them a possibile upgrade.

Sneaky Gits should not be 10 shields, should be somewhere between 50-70. Great catch, will fix for next version!

Thanks for pointing out the colors of the races. Pink is very distinct and helps differentiate the beastmen from other races. Since there are several races (Iirc) that have a brownish color, I didn't want border lines hard to differentiate if race borders were adjacent. But I'll take a look at this!

The Champion graphic, as small as it is, could look like a green-skinned lizard, I never noticed space-marine-ness. Let me check on this one and see if there's a replacement graphic.

We'll update nightbringer description, thanks!

Let me check the color for night elves vs dark elves, thanks for the call-out!

Thanks for the suggestionns on artillery pieces/coastal fortress. You make a good point and we'll review this!

Balrog might just be upgraded for the next version, thanks again. Will have to check their ratings/shield efficiency vs Cave Trolls and similar units.

For the upgraded Quarreler's, I'm seeing that range stays at 2. Where are you seeing that it decreased?

For Dark Elves and Chaos Dwarves, current city design is already somewhat 'dark' in my opinion, albiet not as evil as the burning legion or undead, for instance. Our goal was to ensure that there was a more even distribution of city graphics. If if there's 5 city graphics, the amount of races with each type of graphic should be (almost) equal, so that maps aren't populated with all of the same city graphic type. I'll have to check on the distribution for this, thanks for bringing this up!
In version 3.0, there will also be unique 'citizens' on the city selection screen (where you choose what to build), and that is also limited to 5 total and aligns with city graphics type. So like undead citizens will actually look like undead citizens and not humans. So we might have to find a happy medium here regarding the city graphics.

Yes, there is a plan for new units for the existing races, although probably not for all races (at least not in the next version 3.0 yet... but soon after that version most likely).

Nordic faction is an interesting idea, and may come later! You're right, lots of graphics available. The 2 new races for the upcoming version 3.0 (probably 6-12 months away from being completed) will be the Gnolls and the Nation of Rohem (militaristic but good hearted humans). Unique traits for the new races are not 100% decided yet, but there are some things that we've already been working on. For example, the Gnolls will be the only race that can build Scent Trails (upgraded roads similar to railroads) to allow them to move faster and gain more from irrigation/mines.

Heroes will most likely only be present in version 3.0 in the Azura Map scenario or the mission (storyline) scenarios (mission 1, mission 2, etc). On the Azura Map, Heros will be able to level up, and each race will only have one. These storyline missions might have different gamplay than regular games, and some missions will have a more RPG feel (talk to NPC's, etc.). In the mission scenarios, they might have different abilities such as summoning spells. In missions, most games will fail if your heroe(s) dies.

The Azura World map will be an alternate gameplay mode to the standard random map mode. It will feature a full 'globe' of the world of Azura, with landscape that matches storyline elements. Great Wonders on the Azura map will only be able to be built in one location, not any city like in random map mode. For instance, Hope's Temple is a Hobbit Wonder, so only the tile on or near where the Hobbits start the game on the Azura map will be eligible to build Hope's Temple. We are also considering implementing other unique features on the Azura map, including Heroes and possibly Caravans (bringing a trade caravan to a certain location will net you additional gold), but not 100% sure about this yet. On the Azura map, we are also considering adding ship-traversable rivers. So basically wider rivers that Ships can actually go through, with Bridges at certain points so that land units can cross the wider rivers.

Yes, we are able to make our own units, but most units are conversions from non-civ games. For instance, the Water Elemental you see in the game is one we manually converted from Warcraft, and then created a unique attack animation for it. If you are interested in learning more about unit creation, let me know. It is quite tedious, to be honest.

Thanks again for all your great suggestions. One thing you will notice is that most players' suggestions do indeed find a way to make it onto the mod. This mod is a group effort, and everyone's input is valuable in shaping subsequent updates for this mod. Thanks so much! I'm sure we will keep sharing ideas back and forth!

Thanks for the answer ! Really appreciated It's really nice that you hear the player feedback !

Cool for the kommando ! I think the upgrade is the best idea for not making the unit op aswell in early. You have the horde ascension tech that allow a good ''timer'' for upgrade.

I see for the sneaky, it was a bit surprising but wasn't sure if it was volontuary so I guess it's a nice catch !

For the (lizardmen) champion it's a space marine unit without ''backpack'' and idk why. I think you can replace it by the kroxigor model from Warhammer mod, idk if you know which one im talking about ?

Nice for the colour I really think this is a good potential change. To explain the colours im talking about I show them in this screen : I changed beastmen (Peak of calamity) from rose to the darker brown, and chaos dwarfs (Zharr-Naggrund) to the purple I was talking about, to show the colours. I used chaos dwarfs just to allow to show all the different purple that you can use including lavender, violet and the 2 shades of purple. Again it's just a proposal, but thematicly would fit them more I think, especially the poor beastmen who have the pinkie colour xD ! But maybe you planned to keep some of the colours for future races ?

Hmmm. For the quarreler it's not about ''range'' but damage. ''Ranged attack'' is 9 on upgrade 2 while it's 11 on upgrade 1.
Look this :

For the city type I understand ! But if we count it's actually a bit inequal for now (especially evil and since they are both ''evil'' versions of their respective races it's why I made this proposal !) :
Barbarian : Orc, Goblin, Troll, Beastmen, Skaven, Chaos dwarfs, Dark elves = 7
Evil : Undead, Burning Legion, Blood Cult = 3
Forest : Wood Elves, Hobbit, Lizardmen, Amazonians, Naga, Anthropa Swarm = 7
Civilized : Brehton, Archon, Jade Empire, Frostlings, Ramayanian, Moon Elves = 6
Noble : High Elves, Mountain Dwarves, Osiri, Andori = 4

So maybe we can put chaos dwarfs and dark elves to evil so they have 5 equaly (barbarian and evil) and you can put moon elves to noble to they have 5 in civilized and 5 in noble. Only forest remain the ''biggest'' but there it's kind of hard to move one of them. I also suppose gnolls will be ''barbarian'' and rohem ''civilized'' ! so it will be soon 6-5-7-6-5 if we follow my proposal.

I also have a suggestion, in the LOTR mod they used unique city design (for example Isengard) by using a ''unit'' that overlap the city design. I don't really know how it's done but the city is looking different, maybe it could be used to make some cities unique or more ''cultures'' design ? Maybe giving some races a ''very unique'' design ? For example : dwarfs cities using dwarfs holds or jade empire and osiri/ramayanians that could use eastern/middle east designs ? Of course it's just a supposition I don't know how this could be used. But if it's a immovible unit that does nothing just for flavour it could be interesting to override the 5 cultures limitation.

Im glad to hear that for the units ! If you have some ideas/plans im curious to hear it !

Im also very interested in Gnolls and Rohem (inspired by LOTR Rohirrims I guess ) I was also wondering if you planned to add ''magical roads'' by using the rails, but the explanation of the gnolls mechanics gives a good idea of what you're going to do with it !

For the heroes I see ! The idea is really cool aslong with Asura ''globe'' map that I really want to try out ! I really think it will give more flavour to the mod ! With a different playstyle. So there is no plan to make heroes avaible in ''random/custom'' map at all ? But even if it's just on the Asura map im really interested in. Do you plan specific models for them ? Or they will be ''high tier'' units models with a unique name ?

Yes I saw a lot of people using assets from differents games for example warcraft3, age of empires etc... Im curious to know more about if you have some free time to explain it ! Not sure if I will really go deep into it but im really curious overhaul !

Thanks you again for the answer. Im glad that I found a team who is truly passionate and who also listens to feedback from players The idea of making a Tides of Crimson discord could be a good option too ? I don't know if you guys like the idea. Im curious to know more others team members and players who like the mod aswell ! Could be pretty useful to make MP games aswell if some people are up !

 

[Arexander]

I also have a suggestion, in the LOTR mod they used unique city design (for example Isengard) by using a ''unit'' that overlap the city design. I don't really know how it's done but the city is looking different, maybe it could be used to make some cities unique or more ''cultures'' design ? Maybe giving some races a ''very unique'' design ? For example : dwarfs cities using dwarfs holds or jade empire and osiri/ramayanians that could use eastern/middle east designs ? Of course it's just a supposition I don't know how this could be used. But if it's a immovible unit that does nothing just for flavour it could be interesting to override the 5 cultures limitation.

Isengard has a unique capital look due to a small wonder autoproducing one or two immobile high-defense units with the model for the Orthanc before obsoleting very early, effectively making the Orthanc model always show on top of any other units in the city, unless the units are selected. So it's not really possible for the immobile flavour units to do nothing, they'd have to at least have high defense or high HP or both so they'd show on top of other units in the city.

 

[boho]

I don't know how much this is worth as feedback, but I think all the references to other IPs really cheapens the mod. While there are a core of semi-original races that I could get into (looking past the ripped assets and scaling/volume problems), the Warhammer/Warcraft/Starcraft inclusions and references were massively dissonant with everything else. Actually the music kind of encapsulates the entire dissonant and "cheap" feeling: while the lesser-known Age of Wonders tracks fit in well and made me smile to hear the reference, the inclusion of something as iconic as Final Fantasy or Chrono Cross instantly destroyed all immersion. I've already got memories associated with those tracks. You including them just makes me think of those memories, not the game world. About the time I was going to equate using something unbelievably iconic like a Final Fantasy track with using pop music track, the mod played a keyboard cover of Linkin Park. Dude. Just... no.

I think you've got a decently strong core here that's currently buried under a lot of fat. If you trimmed all the stuff that belongs in total conversion mods and polished the hell out of what was left, you'd have an infinitely stronger product.

 

[Xalarak]

I don't know how much this is worth as feedback, but I think all the references to other IPs really cheapens the mod. While there are a core of semi-original races that I could get into (looking past the ripped assets and scaling/volume problems), the Warhammer/Warcraft/Starcraft inclusions and references were massively dissonant with everything else. Actually the music kind of encapsulates the entire dissonant and "cheap" feeling: while the lesser-known Age of Wonders tracks fit in well and made me smile to hear the reference, the inclusion of something as iconic as Final Fantasy or Chrono Cross instantly destroyed all immersion. I've already got memories associated with those tracks. You including them just makes me think of those memories, not the game world. About the time I was going to equate using something unbelievably iconic like a Final Fantasy track with using pop music track, the mod played a keyboard cover of Linkin Park. Dude. Just... no.

I think you've got a decently strong core here that's currently buried under a lot of fat. If you trimmed all the stuff that belongs in total conversion mods and polished the hell out of what was left, you'd have an infinitely stronger product.

I see where you are going and some of the units could have more unique names I do agree. But from what i've seen, they used the names of the models that were made by the creators for some of them (not all of them tho). So for more unique names I think it's not a bad suggestion.
But I really disagree on the music, I found it very cool and give a lot of ''known vibe/nostalgia''. You can disable the music if you don't like it. I feel this change a bit too personnal (and huge) to be honest.

Isengard has a unique capital look due to a small wonder autoproducing one or two immobile high-defense units with the model for the Orthanc before obsoleting very early, effectively making the Orthanc model always show on top of any other units in the city, unless the units are selected. So it's not really possible for the immobile flavour units to do nothing, they'd have to at least have high defense or high HP or both so they'd show on top of other units in the city.

I wasn't sure how it worked. So it's impossible to have a ''worker'' unit of the top ? Maybe with a special mechanic that force the unit to be seen as top ? At least the idea of having a ''permanent garnison'' on the city who have some defense is interesting for unique cities.
It can still be used for diversity/flavour sake but if the unit get first killed it's kind of annoying

 

[Civinator]

currently buried under a lot of fat.

boho, I don´t think that this is the correct style to write about a mod, that brought a lot of fun for many civers since many years.
If you don´t like it, please don´t play it. This is so simple.

 

[r16]

have defensive units invisible so that when you approach an AI city you will indeed only see the flavour unit representing the culture and whatnot of that civ . Will make combat a mess though , so bring a spy unit to see the hidden defensive units . And also you might also make those defenders immobile . Or have entire unit lines of defenders that upgrade with relevant techs even if that would really require a modding effort that's there , yet .

there was a line of fortresses back in time but the unit builder felt insulted for something and left before ı could download them . Tom2050 most definitely had a flying fortress unit . But ı presume various castle pictures or city graffics can be turned into .flics as "passive" units .

 

[haluu]

Thanks for the answer ! Really appreciated It's really nice that you hear the player feedback !

Cool for the kommando ! I think the upgrade is the best idea for not making the unit op aswell in early. You have the horde ascension tech that allow a good ''timer'' for upgrade.

I see for the sneaky, it was a bit surprising but wasn't sure if it was volontuary so I guess it's a nice catch !

Yep, plan will most likely be to allow Kommando upgrade upon Horde Ascension. Sneaky git most likely will be updated to about 50-60 shield cost, have to check the balance on it.

For the (lizardmen) champion it's a space marine unit without ''backpack'' and idk why. I think you can replace it by the kroxigor model from Warhammer mod, idk if you know which one im talking about ?

Not sure about the model you are referring to, but we'll definitely take a look, thanks for the suggestion!

Nice for the colour I really think this is a good potential change. To explain the colours im talking about I show them in this screen : I changed beastmen (Peak of calamity) from rose to the darker brown, and chaos dwarfs (Zharr-Naggrund) to the purple I was talking about, to show the colours. I used chaos dwarfs just to allow to show all the different purple that you can use including lavender, violet and the 2 shades of purple. Again it's just a proposal, but thematicly would fit them more I think, especially the poor beastmen who have the pinkie colour xD ! But maybe you planned to keep some of the colours for future races ?

Appreciate the visual on the colors! I do like brown for the beastmen actually, but maybe i have to rework the pallete. The very dark brown makes the city name a little hard to read.

I do plan on using up all the colors eventually for future races!

Hmmm. For the quarreler it's not about ''range'' but damage. ''Ranged attack'' is 9 on upgrade 2 while it's 11 on upgrade 1.
Look this :

Got it. I see that now, will update for next version! It should be:

Lv1: Rng Att 9
Lv2 <>: Rng Att 9
Lv3 <><>: Rng Att 10

Thanks!

For the city type I understand ! But if we count it's actually a bit inequal for now (especially evil and since they are both ''evil'' versions of their respective races it's why I made this proposal !) :
Barbarian : Orc, Goblin, Troll, Beastmen, Skaven, Chaos dwarfs, Dark elves = 7
Evil : Undead, Burning Legion, Blood Cult = 3
Forest : Wood Elves, Hobbit, Lizardmen, Amazonians, Naga, Anthropa Swarm = 7
Civilized : Brehton, Archon, Jade Empire, Frostlings, Ramayanian, Moon Elves = 6
Noble : High Elves, Mountain Dwarves, Osiri, Andori = 4

Appreciate the breakdown, I had thought it was more balanced than this before, but we must have made some later adjustments. I hesitate to intermingle too much, now that I think about it. As previously mentioned, in the new version 3.0 (not released yet), new culture-specific citizen icons will be tied to the city type. So for example all 'Evil' Civs will have the same city types AND use the same citizen type (skeleton citizens, demonic citizens, etc.). So I can't move the Dark Elves, for instance, into this category, because then you will have Dark Elven citizens that look like Skeleton people, which would be very confusing. Hope that makes sense! Regardless, we'll take a look at this and see what can be adjusted, thanks!

Im glad to hear that for the units ! If you have some ideas/plans im curious to hear it !

Im also very interested in Gnolls and Rohem (inspired by LOTR Rohirrims I guess ) I was also wondering if you planned to add ''magical roads'' by using the rails, but the explanation of the gnolls mechanics gives a good idea of what you're going to do with it !

Sure, some new units will be race-specific, but I don't have all the details yet. There will also be more units that all races can build. For instance, in future versions, building a Stables will allow all races to build horses that infantry units can 'ride around' on. There will be a Cargo ship that can carry only Domestic Products, and a Spell Boat that can carry only spells.
Yep, Gnolls Scent Trails fit both quick movement and the increased bonuses to irrigation/mining, since it will be like their scented 'territory' where production is higher.

For the heroes I see ! The idea is really cool aslong with Asura ''globe'' map that I really want to try out ! I really think it will give more flavour to the mod ! With a different playstyle. So there is no plan to make heroes avaible in ''random/custom'' map at all ? But even if it's just on the Asura map im really interested in. Do you plan specific models for them ? Or they will be ''high tier'' units models with a unique name ?

I have thought about making Heroes available on just the Azura map. The challenge with making them available on random maps is that I will have to take away the early unique units that some races have, for instance the Moon Elven Hunter Elder or the Mtn. Dwarven Axe Thrower. It's one or the other. Unfortunately I've tried to update the Waywatchers to make that unit unique to all races (so I could do a hero system on random maps), but in testing this never seemed to work for some reason. It always defaulted back to the Waywatcher. May have to look into this more.

Hero units on the Azura Map will likely be a mix of both. Some Heroes might be a unique model, whereas others will be a lower tier or higher tier model for a regular unit, but with an icon (example a floating [H] icon, to help the player easily identify the unit as a Hero unit).

Yes I saw a lot of people using assets from differents games for example warcraft3, age of empires etc... Im curious to know more about if you have some free time to explain it ! Not sure if I will really go deep into it but im really curious overhaul !

This is a good tutorial on getting started on unit editing, but let me know if you have questions. http://modiki.civfanatics.com/index.php/Civ3_Modding_Tutorials

Thanks you again for the answer. Im glad that I found a team who is truly passionate and who also listens to feedback from players The idea of making a Tides of Crimson discord could be a good option too ? I don't know if you guys like the idea. Im curious to know more others team members and players who like the mod aswell ! Could be pretty useful to make MP games aswell if some people are up !

Discord is a GREAT idea! I'll see if we can start one and post the channel credentials here once it's done. I personally do not have too much time to get into games (ask @tjs282 about how few times I am able to contribute to our succession games haha), but I do have time to chat about games. It would be a great place for other players to get involved in multiplayer games, you are correct. So I think it's just a matter of time before we get a Discord Channel up (hopefully very soon!).

 

[haluu]

Isengard has a unique capital look due to a small wonder autoproducing one or two immobile high-defense units with the model for the Orthanc before obsoleting very early, effectively making the Orthanc model always show on top of any other units in the city, unless the units are selected. So it's not really possible for the immobile flavour units to do nothing, they'd have to at least have high defense or high HP or both so they'd show on top of other units in the city.

I didn't know about that, thanks for helping to answer this question, @Arexander !

I don't know how much this is worth as feedback, but I think all the references to other IPs really cheapens the mod. While there are a core of semi-original races that I could get into (looking past the ripped assets and scaling/volume problems), the Warhammer/Warcraft/Starcraft inclusions and references were massively dissonant with everything else. Actually the music kind of encapsulates the entire dissonant and "cheap" feeling: while the lesser-known Age of Wonders tracks fit in well and made me smile to hear the reference, the inclusion of something as iconic as Final Fantasy or Chrono Cross instantly destroyed all immersion. I've already got memories associated with those tracks. You including them just makes me think of those memories, not the game world. About the time I was going to equate using something unbelievably iconic like a Final Fantasy track with using pop music track, the mod played a keyboard cover of Linkin Park. Dude. Just... no.

I think you've got a decently strong core here that's currently buried under a lot of fat. If you trimmed all the stuff that belongs in total conversion mods and polished the hell out of what was left, you'd have an infinitely stronger product.

Thanks for the feedback! We did actually have plans to make a lot of the references to other games more proprietary, to help with this immersion, so I think you have a good point here. Will most likely rename some units as well, and maybe even some races or idealogies as we continue to refine the world of Azura (the world Tides of Crimson is set in).

With the music, we have had plans to update some of the more 'well known' tracks and move them to more mood-setting Mission Scenarios as opposed to being tracks on the main game. The difficulty is in finding songs that not only fit with the fantasy aura, but also just sound flat out good and are songs that a player would like hear. Some of these well known tracks are also really good sounding songs, so that's why they were included. Moreover, trying to find both slower songs and upbeat songs to mix it up a bit was important in track selections. We might not move all of them out, but there are a couple that we may get rid of. (possibly the Linkin Park piano track and maybe a song or two that reminds us too much of Final Fantasy as you suggest). Although with the FF tracks, they might be moved to Missions instead i because of their 'mood setting', but we'll look into this! Thanks again, we're always looking to improve so any input is helpful!

 

[haluu]

boho, I don´t think that this is the correct style to write about a mod, that brought a lot of fun for many civers since many years.
If you don´t like it, please don´t play it. This is so simple.

Thanks so much for the kind words, Civinator! Believe it was meant as just a suggestion, so all good!

have defensive units invisible so that when you approach an AI city you will indeed only see the flavour unit representing the culture and whatnot of that civ . Will make combat a mess though , so bring a spy unit to see the hidden defensive units . And also you might also make those defenders immobile . Or have entire unit lines of defenders that upgrade with relevant techs even if that would really require a modding effort that's there , yet .

there was a line of fortresses back in time but the unit builder felt insulted for something and left before ı could download them . Tom2050 most definitely had a flying fortress unit . But ı presume various castle pictures or city graffics can be turned into .flics as "passive" units .

Agreed, something like that might be difficult to implement.

@Xalarak This might be suited more for a scenario map than for a random map, but the positives of graphical uniqueness might not make up for the defensive/combat clunkiness. In pre-set scenarios, we can actually just create a totally different city set (if not all 5 city sets are used on a scenario), so that would easily solve our problem in creating a different city type in these 'mission' maps, at least.
In scenarios where maps are not randomized, we could also implement surrounding 'buildings' or 'city structures' to make the actual city look more epic. This is already planned for at least one of the mission scenarios. But a lot of work has to go into these storyline missions as a whole, so I'm not sure yet when this will be available.

 

[haluu]

@Xalarak how have your playthroughs been going? Haven't heard back from you in a while.

 

[Xalarak]

@Xalarak how have your playthroughs been going? Haven't heard back from you in a while.

Hey ! I was a bit busy for the summer. I recently started (another) orc map Still loving the mod, I need to test other races to give more feedback, but I will have a bit less time soon.
Like I said earlier, maybe creating a discord community or something like will help discussing more frequently.

What about you ? Do you have anything to say about the mod or the game in general ? Any progression ?

 

[Xalarak]

Little feedback/note about the game ! I love the fact that in ToC AI are always fighting with everyone consistently, it's really funny, unlike base game where I feel AI is way less agressive, so for that it's just perfect. I just don't know if it's possible to make them fight closer for their borders (instead of doing wars with someone super far away) and/or with their cultural/alignement affinities, the fact Burning legion is doing a military alliance with high elves against brehtons for example can be funny but is also very random.

I also have a question, I doubt it's even possible because I didn't saw any mod with it, but can you add more terrain types ? For example a corrupted/dark land for undead/demon factions ?