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Tier 1 governments

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Myomoto, Aug 1, 2020.

  1. Sostratus

    Sostratus Deity

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    Reject modernity, embrace Monke...

    If they swapped the card slots for Autocracy and Oligarchy the choice would be a lot more clear cut. The problem with the red cards is oligarchy can also slot 2 reds. 20% more effectiveness from melee units in war is a great bonus. (I find the autocracy boost would make more sense as a percentage buff or something.)

    Monarchy has the same problem- legacy bonus aside, 3 red cards is too much. Theocracy and MRep can also slot 3 reds if it was that important... but they can also slot 3-4 economic cards, which is what wins games.

    I personally modded the card slots so MR has 1-2-2-1 and monarchy has 2-1-1-2. Likewise, I also changed the tier3 so that Democracy is 1-3-3-1 and fascism is 3-1-1-3. The game plays a lot better because the formerly “too military heavy” governments become the “flexible” choices and the economic superstars get constrained a little. I think all t2 governments should unlock at the same time, as well, but that’s just me.
     
  2. SammyKhalifa

    SammyKhalifa Deity

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    Monarchy should get like a big happiness bonus or something.
     
  3. reddishrecue

    reddishrecue Deity

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    I use autocracy with corvee' and monument to the gods pantheon in early game to get early wonders like Hanging Gardens, Stonehenge or Oracle. I also use it to fight against the barbarians that come out so early. My second choice would be classical republic for the gpp. Oligarchy I've used less often.
     
  4. 8housesofelixir

    8housesofelixir King

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    IMHO the wildcard-heavy design for Democracy it's meant to let them more flexible as a nod to many IRL governments - for instance the wildcard slots can quickly turn into militarily slots in case there is an immediate war, like how US turned into the arsenal of democracy in WWII - so both Fascism and Communism become the non-flexible T3 governments for differentiating from Democracy. It's definitely not balanced, albeit more historically interesting (Democracy=economy & flexible, Communism=economy & war, Fascism=war-centered).
     
  5. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    So then you have 1 yellow + 1 wild vs 1 yellow +1 green. That's not very favorable if you ask me.

    Granted, the natural bonuses for Oligarchy are worth taking on its own, but that has nothing to do with its card spread. And you don't always have iron, though I guess you could do a weird Phalanx strat.

    Both Monarchy and Autocracy (I'd argue Fascism too, except for strict dom victories) are basically transitional governments while Classical and Merchant Republic are more permanent governments. I guess there's a number of strats that see Theocracy (eg. Cultural Victories) as an endgame though. That's the way I see it, though most of the time I'd rather stay in CR over Monarchy.
     
    acluewithout likes this.
  6. Sostratus

    Sostratus Deity

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    Well, we have cards like "arsenal of democracy" to cover that historical flavor. But the current setup just makes the economic governments (Democracy, Mrep, and nominally Synth technocracy but that's different) clearly better.
    It does not make for good balance, and that's not so ideal. Democracy's legacy already focuses on alliances, so the extra diplo slot change really helps reinforce that. (And the fact that no government even has diplo slots as a focus is jarring.)

    I preferred civ5 calling them "Order/Autocracy/Freedom."

    I agree with how the game currently is but I think each government should be able to stand on its own. Even the purest warmongers will get more from theocracy or MR than monarchy, which just defeats the purpose.
    Fascism is very strong for domination, I give them that. Monarchy just doesn't offer anything besides red slots. No one needs housing from walls with all the changes we have gotten from RF and GS.
     
    the_sun and Myomoto like this.
  7. Myomoto

    Myomoto Prince

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    I really like your changes in card layouts, and I hope Firaxis would adopt them officially. Honestly, the more totalitarian/autocratic governments should be the most flexible in card choices, as the descions in such governments are made by an individual supreme leader and thus policy can be swiftly and flexibly implemented.

    Since posting this thread I've gone for Autocracy now as my main tier 1 government in 2 different games. I definitely appreciate it a lot more now, especially if going for cavalry as the bulk of my army.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2020
  8. KayAU

    KayAU King

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    I think I go Classical Republic about 60% of the time, Oligarchy 40%. It depends on if I need the combat bonus, really. If I'm playing with Owls of Minerva, I get an extra economic slot, which strengthens the case for Oligarchy a bit. I don't know if I've ever taken Autocracy, it doesn't fit my playstyle, as I tend to avoid war.
     

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