[R&F] Tier Rankings

[Archon_Wing]

Ah, I guess reading comprehension can be quite difficult in this day and age.

Well, for the sake of some fun, here's what the tier list looks like to me now.

God: Sumeria, Aztec
Great: Rome, Scythia, Greece (Gorgo), Russia
Good: Korea, Germany, Greece (Pericles), Arabia, China
Ok: France, America, Japan, Netherlands, India,
Low: Norway, Kongo, Brazil, Egypt
Trash: England, Spain

Rest I haven't played enough, but I wasn't too impressed with the Mapuche; not sure where to put them.

I don't care to order them that specifically, but the first civ of each tier I consider the strongest and potentially interchangeable with the above tier.

Explanations here: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/power-ranking-the-vanilla-civs.627389/#post-15005923 I wrote this during vanilla, but most of the reasoning hasn't changed.

 

[liv]

No Aztecs - I could not vote

 

[MarigoldRan]

Chandy is up there with Scythia in Single Player. They have the best Horsemen rush after Scythia and their UI is top 5.

 

[acluewithout]

...Explanations here: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/power-ranking-the-vanilla-civs.627389/#post-15005923 I wrote this during vanilla, but most of the reasoning hasn't changed.

Somewhat amusing that everything you said was good about England has now been nerfed... which I think explains ranking them as ‘rubbish’ now...

 

[Archon_Wing]

Yea it's quite sad lol. All they have now is the museum and the 1/2 price dock.

 

[Inlex]

Funny..without reading the comments, I picked 4 of the 5 most voted: AUS, NUB, GER and RUS.

Production powerhouses are just so good. And Russia..well..I think lavra is just dumb.

 

[Disgustipated]

Ended up voting Zulu, Australia, Scotland, and Macedon.

I never cared for Sumeria all that much, they just don't really do much for me.

I'm surprised at all the Russia votes. Is it because of the land grab?

 

[Ever Adrift]

Ended up voting Zulu, Australia, Scotland, and Macedon.

I never cared for Sumeria all that much, they just don't really do much for me.

I'm surprised at all the Russia votes. Is it because of the land grab?

More likely the Lavra which is easily the best unique district in the game now that they Royal Dockyard doesn't provide an instant extra trade route - providing all those GP points is insane.

 

[Esperr]

Tier 1 for me is AUS and aztec off the top of my head for MP. Coincidentally they are banned,in my MP group

 

[KayAU]

For me, this is a very difficult question to answer, as there are so many things to take into consideration. Kudos for actually asking about the most powerful for preferred playstyle and victory type, as that makes a huge difference. While there are some civs most seem to agree are very powerful, such as the Aztecs or Sumeria, and some which most seem to agree are weak, such as Egypt or Spain, there are others which are very situational. For example, I get an impression that water maps are not very popular, and so many people will consider Norway bottom tier. If you like water maps, though, they are pretty good.

I don't think a poll is the best basis for a tier list, though, especially not when some options are missing. The problem is that you can only give a single point to a limited number of different civs. This means that there are some favorites which will appear on top, but it will be hard to distinguish the middle from the bottom, as there are many civs which people will agree are pretty good, but few think are the most powerful. Take China, for example, or Indonesia, or Greece. These are all pretty good, but very few would say that they are among the four most powerful civs in the game, and so they will get very few points.

 

[Chefofrats]

Their Stepwell UI is amazing, too. It means you never have to build a granary, ever again.

What's wrong with building a granary that slots nicely into a city center district? A stepwell requires a free tile, which matters in a game revolving around placing districts and wonders on the actual map, with specific interactions and adjacency requirements.

On topic: the Dutch and Germany are my top picks, for their incredible versatility. They get an output-based advantage that is not down to mindlessly flooding the map with an overpowered unit (the Dutch warship, while very powerful, is a naval one so it will not allow world domination on most map types, especially my prefered ones, continents and pangea). Both of those civs can attempt any kind of victory, which is the definition of versatility in the circumstances of this game.

 

[Frostburn]

Single Player. How I perceive civ strength rather than personal favorites

A+ Tier
Aztec
Persia
Macedon
Nubia
Sumeria
Scythia

A Tier
Zulu
Gorgo
Australia
Korea
Mongolia
Rome

B+ Tier
Arabia
Russia
Cree
Dutch
Indonesia
Germany
Scotland
Chandragupta

B Tier
Pericles
Japan
America
China
Kongo

C+ Tier
Georgia
France
Mapuche
Poland
Ghandi
Khmer

C Tier
Egypt
Brazil
England
Norway
Spain

 

[Ever Adrift]

Tier 1 for me is AUS and aztec off the top of my head for MP. Coincidentally they are banned,in my MP group

I think the Cree are more powerful than Australia, personally. The Mekewap comes earlier and is even more useful than the Outback Station. The Cree can build massive population cities easily, regardless of the concerns facing other civs, meaning that they are just as effective at building big population coastal cities as Australia. The early trading and its ability to grow borders helps ensure you begin making real gold earlier than other civs, trade routes are more powerful and they also help feed your cities better than trade routes run by other civs. The alliance boost also makes it easier to gain era scores and contact all city-states and civs early on. While they lack Australia's 10 turns of increased production when a war is declared on them, it's pretty easy to avoid war as the Cree because your many early trade routes will not only improve your relations with neighboring civs but also provide enough gold to easily buy new units and basic buildings like monuments.

Seondeok is also OP - ridiculously so. I was interested in playing them when they were first announced, but Korea can run away with science (and production) so quickly that they become unstoppable. Korea really, really needs fixed.

 

[Ever Adrift]

What's wrong with building a granary that slots nicely into a city center district? A stepwell requires a free tile, which matters in a game revolving around placing districts and wonders on the actual map, with specific interactions and adjacency requirements.

On topic: the Dutch and Germany are my top picks, for their incredible versatility. They get an output-based advantage that is not down to mindlessly flooding the map with an overpowered unit (the Dutch warship, while very powerful, is a naval one so it will not allow world domination on most map types, especially my prefered ones, continents and pangea). Both of those civs can attempt any kind of victory, which is the definition of versatility in the circumstances of this game.

I'd say the Cree and Brazil are also just about as versatile. I do think the Dutch beat them out because Rivers are found anywhere there is land while Pedro needs rainforests which only dominate the equatorial region. Polders are also pretty damn good - though so is the GP bonus Brazil gets (which also promotes versatility). All that said, the Dutch and Brazil still seem best for cultural victories - no other civs (including Greece) is capable of getting theater district adjacencies nearly as high and the fact that industrial zones benefit too helps ramp up production needed to speed up cultural victories...

As I've already stated a few times, the Cree are incredibly powerful and versatile - far more so than I thought they'd be. The Mekewap is probably the best UI in the game (Indonesia's Kampung rivals it, but being limited to water means it is less spammable, though it does produce tourism... and Persia's Pairadaeza rivals it assuming you are pursuing culture and gold growth.

 

[Ever Adrift]

For me, this is a very difficult question to answer, as there are so many things to take into consideration. Kudos for actually asking about the most powerful for preferred playstyle and victory type, as that makes a huge difference. While there are some civs most seem to agree are very powerful, such as the Aztecs or Sumeria, and some which most seem to agree are weak, such as Egypt or Spain, there are others which are very situational. For example, I get an impression that water maps are not very popular, and so many people will consider Norway bottom tier. If you like water maps, though, they are pretty good.

I don't think a poll is the best basis for a tier list, though, especially not when some options are missing. The problem is that you can only give a single point to a limited number of different civs. This means that there are some favorites which will appear on top, but it will be hard to distinguish the middle from the bottom, as there are many civs which people will agree are pretty good, but few think are the most powerful. Take China, for example, or Indonesia, or Greece. These are all pretty good, but very few would say that they are among the four most powerful civs in the game, and so they will get very few points.

I agree the poll isn't the best basis for a tier list, merely as a tool to help build one. It is useful for identifying consensus around certain civs being especially strong or weak. Using it, people's argued opinions and the tier lists some of us may post individually all to try and produce a better list. I wish the poll allowed for 6 more options, but it doesn't... and it is still the best means of aggregating opinions quickly and with some objectivity here.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Ended up voting Zulu, Australia, Scotland, and Macedon.

I never cared for Sumeria all that much, they just don't really do much for me.

I'm surprised at all the Russia votes. Is it because of the land grab?

Most civs have to balance between settling a city for the best immediate benefit (best tiles are near the city center) vs the best overall city (tiles can be in outer rings). This matters a lot early game because otherwise you will have to waste gold buying tiles to make a city functional. Russia doesn't need to have to make this choice as much. Also it's better against barbarians because the extra range means you can destroy barb camps by settling them into your city.

It's basically a turn 1 bonus.

Grand Embassy is also good. Even if you are doing well, it doesn't always mean you'll be ahead in both science and culture so it lets you catch up whichever is weaker. This is a bonus that helps in tougher games.

 

[Frostburn]

Ended up voting Zulu, Australia, Scotland, and Macedon.

I never cared for Sumeria all that much, they just don't really do much for me.

I'm surprised at all the Russia votes. Is it because of the land grab?

Land grab + Great UU (cossack) + Lavra = strong civ. Arguably the #1 civ for Religious victories. Also, Peter's ability (+science/culture from international trade routes with civs you are behind in tech), while useless in MP and lower difficulties, is actually pretty good on higher difficulties. And while they are most known for religious victory, they are also well equipped for cultural victory/domination victory as well. You can pump out a ton of cultural GPs with the Lavra.

 

[Ever Adrift]

A++ Tier (as in, so OP they are broken, unenjoyable to play or play against)
Aztec
Korea

A+ Tier
Persia
Australia
Cree
Dutch
Russia

A Tier
Pericles
Mongolia
Rome
Nubia
Germany
Kongo
Mapuche
Sumeria

B+ Tier
Arabia
Indonesia*
Scotland
Chandragupta
Macedonia
France
Brazil
Gorgo

B Tier
Japan
Khmer
Georgia
Mongolia
Scythia
Zulu

C+ Tier
Poland
Gandhi
America
China
Egypt
England**

C Tier
Norway*
Spain**


*Higher tier on Island Plates or Archipelago maps; Indonesia is an A+ civ on such maps and Norway is probably B Tier.
**Spain and England do well with continental maps and if they are able to spread out they can be seen as a tier higher.

 

[Eliminator_Sr]

Aztecs are bonkers over-powered but they are still fun to play IMO: highly adaptable for all victory conditions and well designed, plus they are great for pushing the limits on quickest victory times. Just don't expect much of challenge. Korea is only broken in the mid to late game and are less fun to play IMO, but largely because SV is my least favorite option to pursue. I think the Zulu are similarly broken with respect to domination because their corps/armies just completely steamroll the AI (it's arguable the Aztecs are with their crazy combat boost but you still have to earn enough territory for it to be game-breaking).

I went with Australia, Sumeria, Mongols, and Scythia. Macedon is really strong too. Arabia is probably my overall favorite to play.

 

[OneMoreTurnPerTile]

Has anyone played Mapuche much? I picked a fight with them in an Emperor game last night, while I was in a golden age and it was a farce for me. I could see them being a great cub for a turtle science, or cultural victories.