TIL: Today I Learned

[sophie]

TIL Jupiter = father of the day

(PIE) *dieu+pater -> *djieupater -> *jéupater -> *jéupiter -> *jóupiter -> (Lat) Jupiter -> (Lat) Juppiter

Of course the declined forms of the nominative Juppiter are: Jovis, Jovi, Jovem, Jove and so these also come from the PIE word for day; in the genitive: *dieu+es -> *djewes -> *jewes -> *jewis -> (Lat) Jovis

And is further, naturally, a cognate with Zeus which comes from the same root - die(u)s:

die(u)s -> dzeus -> Ζεύς (Zeús)

 

[dutchfire]

Any relation with dieu = god in French?

 

[Arakhor]

French descends from Latin, so probably, yes.

I'm surprised you didn't know that, Owen. You strike me as knowledgeable about etymology.

 

[sophie]

Any relation with dieu = god in French?

Yep! dieu comes from Latin deus (God) which comes from the PIE *deiwos (God) which itself comes from djeu- which means God or sky (hence also "day")

@Arakhor: It's one of those that never occurs to you until you look it up. Happens to me all the time haha.

 

[Commodore]

TIL: While doing research for a new "Clone Wars" mod for CivIII, I found out there was a fraternal organization for Union Civil War veterans called the Grand Army of the Republic, which was also the name of the clone army used by the Galactic Republic in Star Wars.

 

[Takhisis]

TIL that the Pope is coming to Sweden later this year to celebrate the reformation.

He'll probably excommunicate you lot again.

TIL Jupiter = father of the day

(PIE) *dieu+pater -> *djieupater -> *jéupater -> *jéupiter -> *jóupiter -> (Lat) Jupiter -> (Lat) Juppiter

Of course the declined forms of the nominative Juppiter are: Jovis, Jovi, Jovem, Jove and so these also come from the PIE word for day; in the genitive: *dieu+es -> *djewes -> *jewes -> *jewis -> (Lat) Jovis

And is further, naturally, a cognate with Zeus which comes from the same root - die(u)s:

die(u)s -> dzeus -> Ζεύς (Zeús)

Remember that ζ/Ζ used to be pronounced /dz/, btw. Nowadays, yes, it's a /z/ sound.

btw have you found all the versions and cognates of ‘Dad’ yet? You never followed up on that one.

 

[Arakhor]

The terms lord and lady are said to descend from hlaef-weard, meaning "loaf-ward" or "loaf-keeper", and hlaef-dige, which possibly means "loaf-kneader" (another baking reference).

That links in with one of those names that almost no one realises is classic Anglo-Saxon, Edward, which means "rich protector".

 

[Kyriakos]

^England was so prosperous that merely having enough bread made you seem rich

Btw, Zeus seems to derive from the verb Zeuo, which means 'tie together'. Another name for Zeus was Deus, which has a similar verb meaning (deuo).

 

[Arakhor]

In the first part of the 11th Century, England was the wealthiest, best-run state in Europe.

 

[Kyriakos]

In the first part of the 11th Century, England was the wealthiest, best-run state in Europe.

I am sure it was richer than the Byzantine Empire.

We all know that in the 11th century the richest superpower states were China, the Byz and saxon England. (or have you paid one too many danegeld and lost it? )

 

[Arakhor]

The Danegeld was earlier: 1016 was the accession of Cnut to the throne.

 

[Zkribbler]

TIL Jupiter = father of the day

(PIE) *dieu+pater -> *djieupater -> *jéupater -> *jéupiter -> *jóupiter -> (Lat) Jupiter -> (Lat) Juppiter

I was taught at the university, that when the Romans hijacked the religion of the ancient Greeks and took it as their own, the Romans being very paternalistic, tacked on the honorific "pater" onto the name of Zeus, i.e. Zeus+pater [father Zeus] -> Jupiter.

 

[sophie]

He'll probably excommunicate you lot again.

Remember that ζ/Ζ used to be pronounced /dz/, btw. Nowadays, yes, it's a /z/ sound.

btw have you found all the versions and cognates of ‘Dad’ yet? You never followed up on that one.

I didn't realize that was a task that was assigned to me.

I was taught at the university, that when the Romans hijacked the religion of the ancient Greeks and took it as their own, the Romans being very paternalistic, tacked on the honorific "pater" onto the name of Zeus, i.e. Zeus+pater [father Zeus] -> Jupiter.

2 things:

The characterization of the Romans "stealing" the Greek gods is overplayed. It's more integration than a direct borrowing. i.e.: upon finding Greeks who tell them "we have a sky-god named Zeus who lives on a mountain and throws lightning bolts" the Romans say "we have a sky-god named Iuppiter who also throws lightning bolts - they must be the same person. (and at least in the case of Jupiter/Zeus they were the same person) You have a sea-god named Poseidon? Strange, we have a sea-god named Neptune, they must also be the same person." The similarities between the names Zeus and Iuppiter have more to do with both languages having the same mother-tongue (and thereby being cognates) than the Romans pilfering words from Greek. As an example: Neptunus comes from a PIE word meaning "cloud" (cf. German "Nebel" and Spanish "niebla") while the Greek name "Ποσειδῶν" comes from a PIE root meaning "husband" or "master" (cf. Lat. "potis" -> Span. "poder" or Eng. "power"). It's not a matter of borrowing, but rather of integration of two separately developed deities.

2) The Greeks also occasionally referred to Zeus as "Ζεῦ πάτερ" - "O Father Zeus"

 

[Agent327]

Besides that it's a doubly wrong etymology. It uses French (itself derived from vulgar Latin) to explain a Latin name. Secondly, even in French Dieu means God. Which likes Jupiter derives from Zeus, whose name simply means God.

But what you are talking about is interpraetatio romana.

Anywho, TIL we're now officially at war with IS. The questionable mandate seems to have become miraculously immaterial, since the second coalition party waved its objections.

In addition, 'a limited number of specially trained police' will be on 'surveillance' equipped with 'machine guns'. I suppose they mean machine pistols, but let's not get technical. Because technically the government hasn't approved this. Technically several ministers expressed objections to implementing this measure. In fact, technically, no such measure was ever taken.

I guess this should be in Weird News of the World...

 

[sophie]

Besides that it's a doubly wrong etymology. It uses French (itself derived from vulgar Latin) to explain a Latin name. Secondly, even in French Dieu means God. Which likes Jupiter derives from Zeus, whose name simply means God.

To reiterate: no. Jupiter does not derive from Zeus. Iuppiter and Zeus both come from the same PIE name Dieus ph₂ter which translated down through the various phonological changes in the two languages to Iuppiter and Zeu pater respectively. You can also compare it to the Sanskrit Dyaus Pita from the Rigveda.

All of which means "Father of the Day" (dieu - genitive of "day" + pater - nominative of "father)

I'm not home right now, but if you want I can explain the specific phonological changes that resulted in dieu pater-> Iuppiter (/jup.piter/) when I get home and have access to my books on Latin historical phonology. The simple answer is I'm right and frankly I'm insulted that you would presume I would try to derive Latin etymology from French words. dieu doesn't even mean day in French so I don't know where you got the assumption from that that's what I did.

 

[Zkribbler]

Strange that the Roman myths were exactly the same as Greek myths only with different names.
The king of the gods who hurled lightning bolts was married to the queen of the gods, who ruled over hearths and marriage but who did not get along with the goddess of love. The king of the gods had two brothers, one who ruled over the seas and the other over the afterlife. One of the king of the gods half-human off spring was a tremendously strong guy who had to complete twelve labors.

 

[madviking]

it's almost as if tropes exist in society

 

[sophie]

Strange that the Roman myths were exactly the same as Greek myths only with different names.
The king of the gods who hurled lightning bolts was married to the queen of the gods, who ruled over hearths and marriage but who did not get along with the goddess of love. The king of the gods had two brothers, one who ruled over the seas and the other over the afterlife. One of the king of the gods half-human off spring was a tremendously strong guy who had to complete twelve labors.

As I said, they're synthesized. Elements that didn't add up were rearranged or incorporated. So things like "Oh your wife of the lightning-throwing sky god wasn't a warrior goddess? huh, interesting. Oh your sky god had a demigod son who got drunk was forced to do penance for murdering his wife and children? Well I've never heard of him, but he must have. What do you call him? Herakles? We'll call him Hercules then."

As I noted above, Juppiter-Zeus-(again - the Vedic Dyaus Pita) are the only directly etymologically related deities. The Roman sea-god Neptune's name derives from the same source as one of Zeus's epithets (cloud gatherer).

For example: Venus comes from a PIE root meaning "to wish" or "to love" while Aphrodite is of unknown origin but possible meaning "foam" or "dawn". Juno either means "goddess" (same root as Diana) whereas Hera is possibly related to "protector". Mercurius is associated with a word meaning "merchant" while Hermes is related to a root meaning "to bind/tie together". These aren't the same gods, nor are they direct translations. They are rather incorporations of existing deities.

It's no different than how our days of the week work. The Latin name for Tuesday is dies Martes - day of Mars, so the Proto-Germanic speakers translated this to their own god of war - Tiwaz (Týr in Norse mythology) and you get Tiwaz dagaz.

 

[gay_Aleks]

it's almost as if tropes exist in society

has anyone seen the fourth wall

i always try to keep on all of the walls in my house

but i can never see the fourth one

send help please

 

[Takhisis]

I didn't realize that was a task that was assigned to me.

I probably said it somewhere in a deranged/debauched evening at the Chat of Fifty.

has anyone seen the fourth wall

i always try to keep on all of the walls in my house

but i can never see the fourth one

send help please

It's the fourth dimension wall. That's why you cannot see it, you haven't been Enlightened yet.