TIL: Today I Learned

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While A lifelong Chicago fan, Jordan will always be the king to me in this debate, but I can't ignore Lebron's greatness.
 
I would've debated you hard here until this last finals. James put up really solid numbers, though the raw numbers inflated a big cus he played almost 45 minutes per game. His per 36 minute numbers were worse than regular season actually, 27.3 points/36 vs 26.8, half a point better, but his rebounding way down 8.4 vs 6.84 and assists 8.9 vs 8. He had a really great stat sheet but it still wasn't his full potential. Many games it looked like he disappeared, which is weird to say in games where he scored 25+, but game 2 and 3 felt like he quite after 1st or 2nd quarter

And he quit on a ton of defensive plays and really just acted like a petulant child most of the time, throwing all his teammates under the bus. Jordan would've glared angrily at JR smith every time he missed a shot, I have no doubt, but he wouldn't say that other stuff in post game and would never quit on a play. Jordan in place of lebron on that team might have still gotten swept but I feel like he would've scored 50 every game just to make a point.

He also played 3/4 of the Finals game with a broken or near-broken hand, while still putting up MVP-worthy numbers. It's close, but I think the numbers quite clearly point to Lebron as the superior player. I doubt Michael could have dragged such an objectively awful team as this year's Cavs to the Finals (to say nothing of dragging the Kyrie-less 2015 Cavs to a Finals game 7; he really should have taken home the Finals MVP that year). The dude is a monster, and turns literally any team into an instant contender.
 
I would've debated you hard here until this last finals. James put up really solid numbers, though the raw numbers inflated a big cus he played almost 45 minutes per game. His per 36 minute numbers were worse than regular season actually, 27.3 points/36 vs 26.8, half a point better, but his rebounding way down 8.4 vs 6.84 and assists 8.9 vs 8. He had a really great stat sheet but it still wasn't his full potential. Many games it looked like he disappeared, which is weird to say in games where he scored 25+, but game 2 and 3 felt like he quite after 1st or 2nd quarter

And he quit on a ton of defensive plays and really just acted like a petulant child most of the time, throwing all his teammates under the bus. Jordan would've glared angrily at JR smith every time he missed a shot, I have no doubt, but he wouldn't say that other stuff in post game and would never quit on a play. Jordan in place of lebron on that team might have still gotten swept but I feel like he would've scored 50 every game just to make a point.

Wasn't James part of the "dream-team" which didn't even make it to the final, due to losing to Greece? :shake:

Not that i ever liked Jordan much - or the bulls. I liked the pacers at some point - due to 3pointer game. The bulls were just Jordan and his bff Pippen.
I supported virtually all the teams facing the bulls in finals, eg the Suns, the Drexlers ( ;) ), even the Jazz.
 
Jordan wins every time. It is no accident that James wears number 23. He is a wanna be....

Yes, but Kobe was number 24 so obviously he is better than both of them. :mischief:

(to say nothing of dragging the Kyrie-less 2015 Cavs to a Finals game 7; he really should have taken home the Finals MVP that year)

2015 finals lasted 6 games, but I agree he should have been MVP
 
I supported virtually all the teams facing the bulls in finals, eg the Suns, the Drexlers ( ;) ), even the Jazz.
always supporting losers. ;)

If Jordan hadn't take a break to play baseball there would be no debate. But whatever you want to say. 6-0 in the finals, no matter who was on the team.
 
always supporting losers. ;)

If Jordan hadn't take a break to play baseball there would be no debate. But whatever you want to say. 6-0 in the finals, no matter who was on the team.

The issue for me was that the bulls were Jordan, Pippen, and then usually nothing (Danny Ange -spelling?- was there at a time iirc, ok player).
Besides, what serious team has Cartright as its center? :vomit:
I never liked 'only there for rebounds' Rodman either.
 
All you're doing is making the case that Jordan was better.
But in reality the supporting cast had some good situational players. Horace Grant, Denis Rodman, Craig Hodges, John Paxton, Steve Kerr.
Jordan knew how to use his team.
 
What has any of this got to do with Hippocrates or gender diversity? :confused:
 
What has any of this got to do with Hippocrates or gender diversity? :confused:

Very far fetched reading into Kyriakos mind:
Hippo said do not harm. A doctor today can interpret this in whatever way he wants, if it e.g. comes to a gender change (is it beneficial? Is it a harmful mutilation?). What Hippo originally went is not exactly relevant.
Same for the song. It doesn't really matter what the original writer meant, if you interpret it for yourself in a good way.


No idea why Kyriakos picked that example, and not sure if I agree with it, just my interpretation what has been said.
 
Very far fetched reading into Kyriakos mind:
Hippo said do not harm. A doctor today can interpret this in whatever way he wants, if it e.g. comes to a gender change (is it beneficial? Is it a harmful mutilation?). What Hippo originally went is not exactly relevant.
Same for the song. It doesn't really matter what the original writer meant, if you interpret it for yourself in a good way.


No idea why Kyriakos picked that example, and not sure if I agree with it, just my interpretation what has been said.

Actually i meant it in an even more general way: the Hippocratic oath is taken by doctors of medicine; would it change anything if (eg) one argued that Hippocrates himself had different morals than those individual doctors today identified with? Imo no, cause the oath is about medicine, and is aptly general.
 
the hippocratic oath is obsolete thogh, except for historical allusion as 'hippocratic oath' sounds so much better than 'physician's pledge as outlined in the Declaration of Geneva' - most if not all pledges if any are taken nowadays model themselves after one of the various versions of the Declaration of Geneva...
So it wouldn't change much knowing who Hipocrates was in this context as he is merely one of many influences on what nowadays is understood by people alluding to the hippocratic oath.
 
the hippocratic oath is obsolete thogh, except for historical allusion as 'hippocratic oath' sounds so much better than 'physician's pledge as outlined in the Declaration of Geneva' - most if not all pledges if any are taken nowadays model themselves after one of the various versions of the Declaration of Geneva...
So it wouldn't change much knowing who Hipocrates was in this context as he is merely one of many influences on what nowadays is understood by people alluding to the hippocratic oath.

Oh i am not arguing it can be compared to importance to "amazing grace" /shark :)
 
The issue for me was that the bulls were Jordan, Pippen, and then usually nothing (Danny Ange -spelling?- was there at a time iirc, ok player).
Besides, what serious team has Cartright as its center? :vomit:
I never liked 'only there for rebounds' Rodman either.

That's not true at all, Jordan's teams were solid without him, and he took them from good teams to historic. James teams outside of miami have been somewhere between lukewarm and terrible. Bulls in 94 and 95 without Jordan (Jordan came back for 95 playoffs) won 55 and 47 games and were a 3 seed and a 5 seed and lost in the second round. That's pretty good. The cavs were 33-49 the year before James joined.
 
That's not true at all, Jordan's teams were solid without him, and he took them from good teams to historic. James teams outside of miami have been somewhere between lukewarm and terrible. Bulls in 94 and 95 without Jordan (Jordan came back for 95 playoffs) won 55 and 47 games and were a 3 seed and a 5 seed and lost in the second round. That's pretty good. The cavs were 33-49 the year before James joined.

47 games won isn't that good, though. And they also had Kukoc, who (iirc) came after Jordan left the first time, no? Pippen (the US version of Kukoc, ie a good player but not dream-team level imo; of course Jorban had to include him and ban Isaiah Thomas) & Kukoc, and 47 games won in a season is rather mediocre, no?
Kukoc was a good player, though maybe he never really adjusted to the NBA.
 
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Why are you ignoring the 55 win season? That would be a good season in anybody's book. Only three teams beat that this year.
They were one Pippen tantrum from going to the finals that year.
 
Good point. :lol: :lol:
 
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