TIL: Today I Learned

[warpus]

Hmm according to some dictionaries pierogi is both singular and plural, which doesn't sound right to me at all.

Other dictionaries claim that Pierogi is singular and Pierogies is plural.

"A pierogi" just doesn't sound right either, though. None of the above sounds right. (but I am Polish and thus biased by the Polish language - singular in Polish is Pieróg and plural is Pierogi)

I've never ever heard anyone reference a singular Pierog before, in English, either. It's almost as if the word doesn't exist, but it's silly that a word wouldn't have a singular/plural counterpart, so the dictionary peeps had to make something up.

Are there any examples of a word in English having a plural version but not a singular? Aside from examples like "pants" or "glasses", which work the way they do because they're all examples of a thing made out of two smaller things.

 

[Arakhor]

Well, I might say "Pieroge", because it looks like it might have that sort of singular form, but chances are, as an unadopted foreign word, you go with whatever it should be in its native language (or not at all).

Obviously, there's words like 'sheep' that are both singular and plural, but they're native English words.

 

[Phrossack]

TIL that Arabic keyboards often have a key for ﷺ, the seal with the words meaning "peace and blessings be upon him."

 

[warpus]

The problem here is also that nobody seems to know where the word and dish originated, so you end up with various ways of spelling the word - Pierogi, pirogi, perogies, pyrohy, etc.

Even though wikipedia seems to say that the word is derived from Polish:

The English word pierogi (plural: pierogi, pierogies or pierogis) comes from Polish pierogi [pʲɛˈrɔgʲi], which is the plural from of pieróg [ˈpʲɛruk], a generic term for filled dumplings. It derives from Old East Slavic пиръ (pir&#365 and further from Proto-Slavic *pirъ, "feast".[7] While dumplings as such are found throughout Eurasia, the specific name pierogi, with its Proto-Slavic root and its cognates in the West and East Slavic languages, including Russian пирог (pirog, "pie") and пирожки (pirozhki, "baked pastries"), shows the name's common Slavic origins

But even so, a lot of Canadians use the Ukrainian spelling for example - perogy or perogi. At least I assume that's derived from the Ukrainian. It's definitely not derived from the Polish.

 

[Daw]

The simple part: пирог (pierog), пироги (pierogi). So it is in Russian, just take my word for it.

The tricky part: why dumplings are mixed up into there? I mean, pierogi (conceptually it's like pizza calzone, ok?) are supposed to be baked or fried. Dumplings (ravioli) are supposed to be boiled. Not vice versa, and that's the difference, no?

I mean, alright, pelmeni can be fried, too, but it isn't the typical way. And the size matters there, I think.

Also, Ukrainian vareniki have definite "var-" base, which means "boil".

And: although both "vareniki" and "pelmeni" are typically used in plural (the "-i" ending), they have singular forms, "varenik" and "pelmen" respectively. The singular forms have limited practical usage though, because a portion is several. But still the singular form is a valid word form for them, like in: "A common way of having vareniki/pelmeni is to pick one varenik/pelmen with a fork, dip it into a sauce, usually simply sour cream, and put the whole varenik/pelmen into your mouth without cutting it with a knife or biting pieces off."

Same goes to "pirogi" / "pirog", I guess.

 

[warpus]

In Poland we boil our pierogies, then fry them. At least that's what I've always witnessed my mom do, and as far as I remember online recipe sites seem to suggest the same. I've never heard of baked pierogies myself.

It's definitely interesting, but now I'm hungry.

 

[Daw]

I've never heard of baked pierogies myself.

Come on, there's no other way to get this big one or these small ones as a result.

It's definitely interesting, but now I'm hungry.

Sorry, I was being merciless... Guilty, very very guilty.

 

[Arakhor]

TIL that Arabic keyboards often have a key for ﷺ, the seal with the words meaning "peace and blessings be upon him."

Well, that makes sense. My school RS book got around the issue by using an asterisk instead.

 

[warpus]

Come on, there's no other way to get this big one or these small ones as a result.

TIL pierogies can look like that, in Poland we call those something else (but I have no idea what)

 

[Takhisis]

Those pierogi look almost the same as an empanada.

 

[Daw]

empanada.

Don't use any curse words about pierogi!

 

[warpus]

Is it this thing?

In Poland we call them Kulebiak, it seems.

According to the Polish wikipedia a Kulebiak is technically a Pieróg. But surprisingly enough the wikipedia article in Polish for Pierogi is different (from the article on Pieróg), and so it seems that in Polish Pieróg (the singular of Pierogi) is differentiated from Pierogi and is considered to be a different type of food entirely.

But that's just going by what it says on wikipedia.

The distinction seems to be that a Pieróg is a baked thing that looks like the stuff you posted (i.e. sort of looks like a pie), but Pierogi are usually boiled dumplings.

So even though Pieróg is just singular of the word Pierogi, in Polish they also seem to be completely different dishes and so it seems that most Poles would not consider what you posted to be Pierogi, but rather a Pieróg. Even though Pieróg just means 1 Pierogi.

The Russian plural pirogi with the stress on the last syllable should not be confused with pierogi (stress on "o" in Polish and English) in Polish cuisine, which are similar to the Russian pelmeni or Ukrainian varenyky.

That explains why you guys consider both to be Pierogi. So TIL.

 

[Daw]

Is it this thing?

In Poland we call them Kulebiak, it seems.

Yeah, that's the thing and the name is used too, but it somewhat tends to be used a) referring to the big ones only; the small ones I posted above are referred to as pirogi (or "pirozhki", which is "little pirogi"), and b) more in the rural areas and/or by elder people. So it sounds a bit old-fashioned to me and even didn't pop up in my mind until you mentioned it.

That explains why you guys consider both to be Pierogi.

Hey, we don't. You do. Oh wait... nobody does.

Big pie: Pieróg/Kulebiak (Polish) = Piróg/Coulibiac (Russian)
Small pies: Pieróg/Kulebiak (?) (Polish) = Piróg/Pirozhók (Russian)
Dumplings: Pierógi (Polish) = Pelméni (Russian)

Correct?

If so, what do you call one individual dumpling?

So TIL.

So did I

________________________________

@Takhisis: it appears that empanada is cheburek, which is absolutely delicious and equally unhealthy but a totally different thing than pirogi. Well, at least according to the wiki

 

[Takhisis]

Don't use any curse words about pierogi!

Empanada is not a curse word in Españish. It's actually something you'd enjoy eating, I think.

 

[Daw]

So I figured. And edited my last post accordingly before I saw yours. My apologies.

 

[Takhisis]

As a further explanation:

Spoiler :

 

[Daw]

Wow, that was a big one!

Okay, at this point though I have to ask: does empanada mean any specific thing at all?

The picture you posted does look exactly like pirozhki, that's true.

 

[Takhisis]

That looks like an empanada before you roll it together. Empanadas are made (well, at least I make them this way) by taking a disc of uncooked dough, putting the stuffing in the centre and then folding the dough onto itself to achieve the semicircular ‘half-moon’ shape.

 

[Daw]

Then if the dough is stiff and thin, and the stuffing is mutton (tail fat is the thing to add to the stuffing to make it the "true" thing), and if the 'half-moon' shape is then cooked by letting it swim in a bath of boiling oil, then you get a cheburek.

If the dough is made with yeast, and the thing is cooked by baking or pan frying, then you get a pirog (or pirozhok, depending on its size).

The authentic pirozhok is not half-moon shaped though. It is more like a seed shaped, with the dough coming together at the downside.

Shape isn't that critical for a big pirog. It may be round, or rectangular, or half-moon, too.

 

[W|M]

Those pierogi look almost the same as an empanada.

You mean a pastel chinês?