Tim02: Revenge of the Defiant Diplomats

[TimBentley]

Tim01 finished in a conquest loss due to an overwhelming dogpile. First, some copy and pasting:

Version: C3C 1.22f
Difficulty: Demigod
Civilization: America
Size: standard
Landmass: 60% continents
Barbarians: random
Climate: random
Temperature: random
Age: random
All victory conditions enabled, but only diplomatic will be considered successful
Rest is normal

Here is the variant, copied from Arathorn's variant list:

Defiant: You must never give in to a demand from an opponent, that is, you always reject demands for tribute. You may never ally, sign a Right of Passage, MPP, or embargo with another civilization. You may never pay for peace (a peace treaty must either be straight-up or the opponent gives a concession to you. A deal where a tech costs 20 gpt normally and you pay 10 gpt for that tech as part of a peace treaty is fine). Any troops on your soil must be given a boot order every turn. No capturing foreign cities or demanding them in diplomacy. No foreign workers merged into existing cities. If an AI razes one of your cities, that civ must be eliminated.

Roster:
Pied Piper
tomasjj
Whomp
skunk
TimBentley

The roster is full as long as everyone wants to play again.

A few things have been learned from the first attempt. Razed cities are bad. If a city is likely to be razed, we should abandon it or give it away. We should prepare for a possible AW, including three-tile spacing. With the potential of wars, we should make sure we keep our reputation secure. I would advise against water trading prior to the discovery of astronomy. I also decided to go for standard to reduce the number of potential enemies.

I'll get around to rolling a few starts soon.

 

[Whomp]

Checking in Cmdr. Bentley.

 

[TimBentley]

Here are a few starts. I also got a start with two wheats and about 4 BGs, but I forgot to save it.

A:


B:


C:


The saves are attached.

 

[Whomp]

I will take the 2 wheat with 4 BG's.
"A" seems to be the best of the rest and could share wheat to the south.

 

[tomasjj]

Reporting in.
Agree with Whomp.
A seems to be the best.
B looks like a small peninsula.
C, not as good as A. Just ok.
jj

 

[Ginger_Ale]

lurker's comment: With A, if there is another bonus grass or two, you could set up a 6-turn combo warrior/settler pump, although that isn't necessarily the best for this variant. Military would be the focus. Once again, I'll be following, goodluck.

 

[Pied Piper]

I also think A is the best option. Will be happy to start us off again. Hope Skunk will be joining too.

 

[Pied Piper]

Game File
T0: Head SW with Scout to scope out a more central capital location, find hut and get CB.
T1: Head for the hills to the east
T2: Scout east for more hills.
T3: More hills and mountains over a flood plain, hut to the north.
T4: Get settler from hut, I can live with that. Its at least two moves to a better tile but 5 mountains out of 9 is too much to not move.
T5: Wash: scout>granary (JK), Scout gets BW from hut. Meet Persia we are up Pot and CB, they have 35 gold.
T5: Scout finds grapes, settler moves south again
T6: Meet Scandanavia, they have Alpha/WC/10g and we have CB/Pot/BW/Mas, scout finds another wheat to the west.
T7: Scout gets map by the second grapes to the north. Found NY.
T8: Find cow and grapes to the west as well. Scan & Persia about to meet. Trade Scan CB/Pot for WC/10g, Trade Persia CB for 35g
10: Wash: warrior>settler
11: Barbs approach the western scout who runs away and gets Myst from hut.
12: West scout climbs 3 cow mountain and contacts Germany who has nothing to trade.
17: NY: warrior>worker
18: Wash: settler>warrior, Persia has 3 workers available so I trade Scan Myst/117g for Alpha, trade Persia Myst/Alpha/2g/3gpt for 3 workers
20: Set lux to 10% for 1 turn, suggest next build for DC to be scout then granary.

One scout was not moved, I believe Germany/Persia may be at war.
VERY IMPORTANT! Awesome trade opportunity just became available. Germany got IW and we have many techs to trade for it.
Scandinavia has a worker and lots of gold to pay for IW. Persia we may not want to trade it to since NY is so close to them.
Settler heading south for cows and/or grapes


Still feeling a little under the weather from yesterday, will embellish and edit for pics tomorrow.

 

[tomasjj]

Right on. Good to get started.
I got it, and will play when I get home from work.
1800 CET.
jj

 

[Whomp]

Looks like a mighty fine start to things PP!!!

 

[tomasjj]

Pre-turn 3000bc:

MM Washington.
Switch research to Poly on min. Guess we want Monarchy.
Get IW + 10g from Germany for Alpha, Myst, Mason and Pottery.
Expensive though.
Sell IW to Ragnar for 85g and a worker.
Only visible iron source is south near German border...No, one more east of NY on coast.
Switch NY to warrior.

1 - 2950
Wash: warrior-scout
One more scout to pop some techs...then granary.
2 - 2900
zzz
3 - 2850
zzz
4 - 2800
wash: scout-granary
getting ready to chop
Boston founded near cows. Set to rax.
5 - 2750
pop a hut get warrior.
6 - 2710
switch wash to warrior as barb approach.
7 - 2670
NY:warrior-worker
8 - 2630
we take out a barb coming from the north
All the others have the wheel now. We will have to pay 175g for it.
Bummer that I havent found more huts.
I wait.
9 - 2590
chop done.granary in 8.
workers are building roadnetwork for quick expansion.
we have dyes in the north.. but looks like only one.
IT:NY loses pop to disease.
10 - 2550
zzz
---------------------
The wheel is still there to be bought if we want it.
Nothing much to report. Germans and Persians were at war in the start of the turns.
Scandy was involved too as I saw a couple stray warriors move towards Germany.
jj

save

 

[Whomp]

Good show JJ. I will take a look tonight. Considering the AI are warring we may be able to wait on HBR for a bit until we fill a few more spots and let the price come down.

Who are those purple guys? Hopefully they won't be looking to come home when we fill in.

Maybe a dotmap is in order? We seem to have some good river spots east and west. I like the spot on the coast with the wheat NW of DC. It could also start the watering to all those plains south of it.

 

[TimBentley]

Looks good so far. Last I checked, skunk hadn't been online since the 23rd, so I'll open up another spot. If skunk gets back, a six-player roster is fine.

Second game in a row I was confident one start would be the unanimous choice.

 

[Whomp]

Pre turn nada
IBT disease in NY
2510 See a scan vet NW
IBT Scan kills barb. X-Man wants to know if I'm blind. I leave.
2470 DC grows lux to 10%
IBT Vikes start Colossus. Persian spear kills something.
2430 zzz
IBT Vike Warrior dies vs something. They start Oracle (Trondheim) and finish Colossus in Trondheim (holy cow that was fast)
2390 See goody hut
IBT zzz
2350 Pop a settler! Scout is dead though as it's next to a camp. Move settler away. DC gran in 1. Germs sell us a worker for 120g.
IBT Barb horse near Boston. Scout killed.
2310 DC gran-->settler NY worker-->worker
IBT Nice little battle with Germs and Persians near Perepolis
2270 zzz
IBT more battles.
2230 Lux to 40% for Boston
IBT zzz
2190 Boston needs more? Scientist and move lux to 20%.
IBT Barb horse goes north toward wine worker. Barb warrior breaks off from our settler.
2150 DC settler-->settler

---summary----

HBR is still the same price and no new techs. There are two settlers to place. I think the one I popped should head towards the hills because the only iron now is east of NY. Far far. Barbs are lurking around so try to get escorts. We're pretty widely spaced right now so we should discuss the map. I placed a few dots and those may even be a bit far away.

 

[TimBentley]

Maybe you should have written your log like an idiot. Those dots do look widely spaced, although they may fit into a fuller dotmap. A quick thought: maybe the yellow one SW?

Roster:
TimBentley - up and got it
Pied Piper - on deck
tomasjj
Whomp - just played

skunk - can be fit in if heard from

 

[Whomp]

Tim--I think the Admiral avatar went from idiocy to lunacy.

I was hoping to clear fog and find iron near the yellow (wishful thinking)
We have a happiness issue so I would try to capture the wines too.

 

[tomasjj]

Spacing seems a bit wide imo.
When settling Boston I was thinking "backfill" later.

 

[Whomp]

Right-o. Way wide it is.
The wines are necessary though or our lux will run high or ok with scientist. You got it on yellow. I was hoping to find some iron under that fog. How about on the river on the hill by the 2 slaves W (captures wheat)
Maybe buy HBR on the 2nd settler out of DC to see if we have horses around. Hopefully the price will come down a bit.

 

[TimBentley]

2150(0)-I don't like the scientist in Boston (though it's the right thing); it needs roads
The wheel is a bit expensive for my tastes
We need to get a couple of curraghs out, so a city on the coast soon would be nice
Whomp's suggestion first, though
lux to 10%

IBT-barb horse goes next to Boston (hmm, military advisor only mentions Apaches near New York; who knows HBR? (other continent or ours?))

2110(1)-Persia must have learned writing and sold it to the Vikings; Germany also knows it but has same money amount
Chances of winning are higher on attack, warrior loses, what will barb do? (tested it, it will pillage rax)
settler sees iron
lux to 20%, science to 10%
Why is the governor emphasizing food?

IBT- Lupacas pillage work on rax
According to St. Augustine, Germany is glorious (#1), Russia is great (#2), Persia is fine (#3), Vikings are pathetic (#6), and we are forgotten (#8), in terms of power. Well, if nobody remembers us, they won't go to war with us, right?

2070(2)-switch Boston to warrior

2030(3)-conscript meets barb warrior
I think irrigation to Boston will come from Washington

IBT-conscript beats barb

1990(4)-Found Philadelphia near iron, start on warrior; found Atlanta near wheat, start on worker

IBT-Washington settler->rax (throw in units as well as settlers)

1950(5)-buy the wheel from Vikings for 175g
You'd think we had the same knowledge as the AI by our city placement: there's horses by Oslo, Reykjavik, New York, and Boston
HBR is known by Persia, Vikings, but is unaffordable

IBT-Boston warrior->worker

1910(6)-conscript warrior dies attacking barb
scout finds barb camp, but only the stationary barb there

IBT-New York worker->worker

1870(7)-Viking archer took out the barb camp

1830(8)-Found Chicago by wines, start on worker

IBT-Philadelphia warrior->barracks

1790(9)-zzz

1750(10)-scout finds goody hut

Notes: Feel free to change the current builds
There's still some land to explore west of Chicago
Workers should bring irrigation south from Washington to irrigate Boston's cow soon



Here's a dotmap I did too quickly (which is why it's a bit confusing). Feel free to do a better one.


Here is the save.

Roster:
Pied Piper - up
tomasjj - on deck
Whomp - being a complete idiot
TimBentley - just played
Open spot

skunk - can be fit in if heard from

 

[Whomp]

Nice turns Tim! Idiots like horses and iron. We got pretty lucky on the iron being right there!

#1 spot for me is on the blue pointing arrow on the coast (don't get gunshy fellas there aren't any frigates around ) gets the river, cow and shares the wheat.
#2 I kinda like the red spot north of DC (wish it was 1s) with water and bg's galore, tobbaco.
#3 River plain spot below the DC star.
#4 Hill between Chicago and Boston?