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Time to face it: I suck at Noble.

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by joe6778, Jul 24, 2013.

  1. gps

    gps King

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    Well, I surely am not the most advanced player around, and there's much I am still today doing wrong in terms of diplomacy, optimal tech choices and trading, and especially a proper feeling for when to go to war and how to conquer quickly - but I can asure you the step from Warlord to Noble is not that big. My first Noble win was with auto-workers, no city-specialization of any kind, no whipping and hardly any fancy expert strategies. So it's definitely possible to win Noble with rather basic knowledge.

    True, but to be honest I prefer playing a great game for ten years rather than constantly having to cash out 60 bucks or so for 10 or 15 hours of gameplay - and then I've seen it all...
    But in the end it's your choice if you want to play that sort of game or not.
     
  2. Olson

    Olson Warlord

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    I see statements like this quite a bit but have yet to find a CFC or YouTube game that shows how one can tech Gunpowder by 500AD-750AD and Rifling by 1000AD. Maybe I've seen it but the player isn't saying what they're teching or their rate.

    I'm winning Domination on all my Pangea, standard, random Noble games but the timeframe others give seem impossible unless it's all because they pick only financial leaders, the AI civs, and regenerate until they get a great start.

    I think my fastest teching game, as Genghis Khan, had Gunpowder by 1400AD and Rifling by 1600AD. If I can shave 500yrs. or so off I think I'll be ready for a CFC game.

    [Edit: thanks for the reply TallGermanJoe...don't want to 'highjack' this thread with a 'reply']
     
  3. Olson

    Olson Warlord

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    Only 10 games? It took me 10 starts (4000BC-1AD) just to figure out I couldn't REX like in CivIII and Great People required Wonders/City Improvements. Then it took another 10-15 starts to figure out what city specialization is and how to implement it (half-assed). Some day, maybe, I'll get it right. Then it took another 10 starts or so to get intuitive about what I know and to identify early when I start drifting into Civ III mode when I'm not focused.

    Have you tried to play just to a certain date and then do the same start again while shooting for a better tech rate and demographic rating? Don't use your knowledge of that gamestart militarily...use it to improve city placement, city development, and teching.
     
  4. joe6778

    joe6778 Prince

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    Actually, I'm coming back to the game after being away for a while. I played a whole lot of Civ IV before I left the hobby.
     
  5. BornInCantaloup

    BornInCantaloup Agent of Chaos

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    Right, don't insist on completing each and every game you start.

    Start, see where you fail, restart. That is enough.
    You can even restart on the same map, that's ok! Could give you a better comprehension of what is right and what is wrong. You might even do so on a map that other players play, such as the Noble's Club, so you could compare even further.
     
  6. Olson

    Olson Warlord

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    BornInCantaloup, what turn#/year would you say would be a good cut-off point to know if one did well with their start? What criteria would you use to gauge how well the start was played?

    I usually go to turn 100 (150 f I had a poor starting position for my random leader). And I look to have the highest Demo Screen GNP, Food, Prod (though my GNP is usually 3rd or 4th), and 'soldiers'. I look at population, too, but realize I'll have a low rating if the AI has few [but] large pop. cities.
     
  7. Lennier

    Lennier Emperor

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    In high level games, the AI techs very fast, so players bee-line techs not favored by the AI to trade around, thus speeding up their tech rate. On lower levels, a decent player can get a tech lead fairly early, so the overall tech rate is slower.
     
  8. BornInCantaloup

    BornInCantaloup Agent of Chaos

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    Well... I've completed less than 40 games but taken maybe, perhaps, probably, a... little, almost, about a thousand maps to the late BCs. Really, I can't tell. Maybe more? I mean: loads. There are all those games I dropped at 1800 BC or 1000 BC or 600 BC...
    At some point, I completely forgot what the ADs were like.

    So I'd say: if one wanna restart during the BCs, let him go ahead!
    Criteria: to each his own. Spotting mistakes is part of the process. Mostly I have restarted because I was disappointed at myself (very relative) or thought the game was dull (relative) or already won (idem) or lost (see disappointed : a losing position isn't a lost game // in the same way, a winning position isn't a won game), or just because I'd reached a situation that seemed too difficult. I've used all kinds of pretexts to drop games. Also the most common reason: it's a new dawn, it's a new day.


    But then, everyone plays the game differently. There ain't 1 way.
     
  9. Olson

    Olson Warlord

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    Maybe the AI's faster tech rate on higher levels is why I can't keep up with Snaaty's "BTS – A guide for higher difficulties for standard speed and maps (emperor+)"
    BTS – A guide for higher difficulties for standard speed and maps (emperor+)

    I do fine until Snaaty has the reader building Taj Mahal, run "a zillion merchants", and burn a [single] Great Person for a Golden Age...repeatedly... by 500AD.
     
  10. Olson

    Olson Warlord

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    Same with me.
     
  11. joe6778

    joe6778 Prince

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    OK. Here' my start.
     

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  12. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    Pic of Start:

    Spoiler :
     
  13. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    Well, that's not a promising start at first glance. Hoping you have a better food resource in the fog. The one positive thing is a lot of forests for chopping, so BW is definitely a priority here.

    France starts with AG/TW (arguably the best start combo). So baring a better food resource like say Pigs, which calls for AH, I expect that Mining>BW is the way to go and most definitely worker first.


    You probably have some resource due south. First glance I think SIP is probably best considering the land and location of the rice (at least it is wet, but still not great as primary food). So I might move the warrior 1NE before settling.

    So move the warrior and then post a screenshot or save (do you know how to post screenshots).
    Then we will discuss the next step.
     
  14. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    by the way, I request this thread be moved to S&T where it should be
     
  15. JBossch

    JBossch King

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    @Joe:

    Listen to Lymond. Focus on the fundamentals. Things like city specialization and playing to a leader's traits can wait.

    Go ahead and move your warrior, settle in place, queue up a worker, and decide what to tech first. Then you won't have to make another decision for 10 turns or so and you can just explore a bit.
     
  16. joe6778

    joe6778 Prince

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    Here it is.
     

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  17. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    I hope we can learn you the ways of screenshots ;)

    That start is quite fugly. The rice and sheep are not your better food resources. This will strictly be a production city with likely cap move later depending on what type of game you want to play. At least you have lots of forest...so there is enough here to get you up and running.

    Thoughts:

    I think Mining>BW is a no brainer here. If that rice was wet corn I'd probably skip AH for now(and probably would on higher levels). However, getting that sheep running will be helpful. Depending on the land I'd go POT>Writing after that.

    But take this slow:

    1) Play until the worker is out while teching to BW and post again

    2) Try to scout with your warrior in a circular patter. The key for the warrior right now is to identify your future close by city sites, then move to a spawnbust position. Don't send him 50 tiles in 1 direction..ha

    I have to retire for night but will check in tomorrow evening. Of course others can help.

    When you post your Turnset reports feel free to present your thoughts and questions as well. This is an interactive process (even if we likely will tell you your wrong ;)) You get more out of this by being engaged and patient.
     
  18. Tall German Joe

    Tall German Joe Prince

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    I think I did rifling rushes in the recent nobles club Willem game, and the most recent sons of monarchy game (w/ sitting bull), and had rifling around 600 AD in both games. I think maybe even earlier in the willem game... the recent nobles club ramses game I think I was kinda slower to rifling because it was a continents map and a cuir rush, but I still think I hit the dates you listed for both techs. that one I posted in a lot of detail, don't think I did on the other two though...

    one of the biggest factors for early dates is how much AIs are trading; obviously they tech faster (and therefore trade more) on the highest difficulty levels, as well as pangaea maps where all civs are in contact with each other from the early BC years. religious lovefests also contribute to heavy tech trading, as does having civs like mansa and darius in the game.
     
  19. Fippy

    Fippy Micro Junkie Queen

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    I see Lymond has high standards, wet Rice and sheeps..decent amount of river tiles, many many forests "fugly start" oO
     
  20. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    It is quite solid for early production indeed.
     

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