TIMELINE: A Civilization concept by Lord Lakely

[Ryansinbela]

Nothing. The God's name is a placeholder. Different Civs are free to worship the same type of Deity.

See it how Aphrodite / Isis / Inanna / Tanit all have Love in their portfolio, and have similar origins (all are based on Sumeria's Ishtar) but they are still considered different goddesses.

I see then

I would have included a list of presets in my opinion but your way is fine

 

[Ryansinbela]

Who is Great Engineer Abi Bakr
Do you mean the Rashida Caliph Abu Bakr?

 

[Lord Lakely]

No, I definitely do not mean that one, nor the scholar known as 'Rhazes' (also called Abu Bakr) who was a researcher on gynaecology and pediatry. Abi Bakr of Isfahan is a Persian scholar who invented the mechanical astrolabe. :3 Seemed suitable for inclusion on the list.

I got the name off Wikipedia, but this is the paper that credits him for the invention: https://www.jstor.org/stable/1006002?origin=crossref. It's an article about Giovanni Dondi, who invented the astrarium and based himself off Bakr's own research in mechanical engineering.

 

[Ryansinbela]

No, I definitely do not mean that one, nor the scholar known as 'Rhazes' (also called Abu Bakr) who was a researcher on gynaecology and pediatry. Abi Bakr of Isfahan is a Persian scholar who invented the mechanical astrolabe. :3 Seemed suitable for inclusion on the list.

I got the name off Wikipedia, but this is the paper that credits him for the invention: https://www.jstor.org/stable/1006002?origin=crossref. It's an article about Giovanni Dondi, who invented the astrarium and based himself off Bakr's own research in mechanical engineering.

Ah I see, I am making a compilation doc and I want to mention the accomplishment of each great person (for fun)

 

[Lord Lakely]

Figured it was something among those lines, but not to worry - the Lord freakin' provides. ^_^

 

[Ryansinbela]

Another thing I noticed is Alexios’ ability was misspelled (definitely should be Alexiad)

I may or may not make up descriptions for the uniques like what you did with the early civs (for consistency)
Also are Knighthoods only explained in the French First Look

 

[Lord Lakely]

Another thing I noticed is Alexios’ ability was misspelled (definitely should be Alexiad)

I may or may not make up descriptions for the uniques like what you did with the early civs (for consistency)
Also are Knighthoods only explained in the French First Look

> The book is called called 'Alexias' in medieval Greek. I checked.

> Knighthoods are a main mechanic that are mostly exclusive the French, but the Krak des Chevalier Wonder allows anyone to earn them. I feel like tokens that allow for instant upgrades and promotions are strong enough of a boon that I don't want to spread them around too much. If you want to earn them with a more militaristic faction (like Shogunate Japan or Assyria) you'll have to build the associated Wonder.

 

[Ryansinbela]

I understand
Also do the Ancient wonders get Great People Points and did you change the Great Pyramids type
and one more thing: does the Stone Circles Pantheon exist or is it obsolete

 

[Lord Lakely]

Merry Christmas everyone. It seems like as good a time as any to start adding in Religion. We'll start with Christianity which is the religion I'm the most familiar with and found the easiest to find a core identity for.

Christianity in this game is based around the Catholic Church as a wealthy political institution, and focuses largely around funding, art and holy war.

DRAFT - Christianity & its Tenets

Terminology & Mechanics

Founders and Followers:
Timeline distinguishes between the Founder(s) of the religion and those who follow it. The Founder of the Religion is the Player that created the Religion, + any other Player that owns a Holy City while also having that Religion as their State Religion. These players benefit from the FOUNDER BELIEF.

The FOLLOWER BELIEF affects anyone who follows the Religion as its State Religion. It doesn't require majority Religion in most cities, although some Tenets will scale based on / exclusively interact with Majority Cities and Follower Count. Followers can become Founders if they obtain or designate a Holy City belonging to their Religion. There are plenty of ways to doing this, depending on the Religion. Vedism and Islam can very reliably obtain more Holy Cities, while Tengriism doesn't have one at all, with every Follower counting as a Founder.

Populations that belong to a certain Religion will also be called 'Followers' down the line.

Worship Buildings and the Grand Temple:
The Founder and Follower Belief, as well as the Worship Building (the Tier 3 Grand Temple) are unique to each Religion. Some Religions have additional variants of existing buildings, such as Islam's Madrassah and Vedism's Gurdwara. Christianity, which we'll talk about first, only has one type of Grand Temple, the Cathedral. Churches and Chapels are refered to as 'Christian Temples' and 'Christian Shrines' for clarity.

Tenets
The other key mechanic of Religion are the unique Tenets every Religion has access to. Tenets are unique to their Religion, with the caveat that Religions can have Tenets with similar effects. Some Tenets can exist for other Religions in weaker forms. Christianity for instance has a Coin focus, and Coin-based Tenets in other Religions are weaker or less numerous, to help cement Christianity as the Religion of material wealth.

Tenets offer a broad range of buffs that could play into your Civ's strengths, or give you guidance towards how to win the game.

For a Tenet to take effect, it has to be adopted, just like how a Policy Card would be slotted in Civ6. Religions have a limit on Tenet slots, but Founders have the ability to expand the amount of Policy Slots via certain actions. There is no theoretical cap to how many Tenet slots you can obtain in a game. The exception is Judaism, which is permanently capped at 10 slots, but has them all unlocked from the start.

Denominations, the Ecclasiastical Council and Schisms
All Players that follow the Religion will benefit from adopted Tenets. Tenets can be Discovered and adopted by expending a Great Prophet. If a Founder adopts or renounces a Tenet, the effect is automatically applies for all players who follow that Religion. If a NON-Founder adopts a new Tenet or renounces an old one, a vote will happen between all practitioners called the 'Ecclesiastical Council'. This is a World Congress Vote between only practitioners of the Religion. If the change is rejected and the player who proposed it defies the decision, a Schism will happen, and that player will found a new Denomination of the Religion, with them as the Founder. This can happen up to twice in a game per Religion.

Practioners can choose which Denomination they follow. This will decrease Relations with rival Denominations but greatly boost Relations within their Denomination. Denominations of the same Religion have the SAME Founder and Follower Beliefs and the SAME Worship buildings. All that Denominations differ in are adopted Tenets (there is some overlap but it's no longer universal) and which players have Founder and Follower status.

How to obtain Tenets:
Tenets are discovered via Great Prophets. Discovery works like it does in Hearthstone - the game randomly picks three Tenets to show to you, and you pick one of the three. One of Christianity's features is that it will be able to see five Tenets instead.

Typically, players can only discover Tenets of their own State Religion, but they ARE allowed to add Tenets of other Religions if they know them. (this may upset the Founders depending on their Leader's Personality). It is possible to discover Tenets of non-State Religions if you own a Prophet of that Religion.

Each Religion has a group of Interfaith Tenets that they share with other Religions (dual-type Tenets, if you will), as well. Henry VIII is able to discover Tenets of any Religion present in his empire, and add it to his State Religion through by-passing the Ecclesiastical Council. Since Henry cannot found Religions, this will nearly always result in a Schism.

How to obain Tenet slots:
The Ethics tree will contain additional Tenet slots as potential Tech Rewards. The 'Reformation' ability on Great Prophets will offer their owner the choice between discovering a new Tenet or adding another slot to their Religion. Additionally, I'll ensure there is at least one World Wonder that rewards Tenet slots.

Clerics
The Civilian units tied to Faith, the Clerics, will all follow a Religion that you can choose yourself. The Cleric's abilities will then work towards that Religion. If the Religion has experienced a Schism, you'll have to assign a Denomination as well. Henry VIII, who cannot earn Great Prophets, can instead Discover Tenets via his Clerics. (expending them as other players do Great Prophets).

Heretics, Heathens, Pagans and Faithful
Finally, Heretics are players that follow the same Religion but a different Denomination. Heathens are players that follow a different Major Religion. Pagans are players that either don't have a Religion, or follow Tengriism. Faithful are players of the same Religion AND Denomination as you.

Advantages: Provides players with the Guidance they need to execute their strategy.
Disadvantages: Poor relations. Religions put a lot of strain on diplomatic relationships, with both Heathens and Heretics, and can make befriending other AIs very difficult. If you want to stay friends with everyone, consider converting to the most prominent Religion or staying irreligious.

The plan long-term will be to add Ideology to the game, which is a way for non-Religious Civs to have a Religion-like mechanics without having to commit to Faith and piety. This won't be introduced for a while however.

Important Reminders before we jump into Tenets:

• All Clerics and Worship Buildings mentioned below are Christian unless stated otherwise. If a Tenet's effects apply only to Denominations (either the player's, or all but the player's), it will specified.
• In order to benefit from the Founder Belief you either need to own a Holy City, or be the player who Founded the Religion, while also following the Religion.
• Any player that has the Religion as its State Religion will benefit from the Follower Belief and the Tenets.
• ONLY Players who Found a Religion can retain their Pantheon bonuses, and only as long as they have it as their State Religion. (This applies to any Religion that Player has founded in a game.)
• Bon-Pagan Worship Buildings (Shrine, Temple, Grand Temple) can be built as soon as one Population in a City has Converted to the Religion. Pagan Worship Buildings and Pantheon bonuses will become unavailable once the City has a Majority Religion. If you Founded a Religion that is your current State Religion, the Pantheon bonuses will be retained.
  • Factions with a unique Pagan Worship Building (such as Ptolemaic Egypt's Serapaeum), will be able to retain it as a Variant, but only for their State Religion. If Cleopatra follows Buddhism, the Serapaeum will count as a Buddhist Temple only.

CHRISTIANITY

Founder Belief (Sancta Sede): Christian Holy Cities receive extra Coin and Culture per Christian Tenet slotted. Receive a Tenet slot whenever a Religious World Wonder is built in a Christian Holy City. Whenever you discover a Tenet, see five Tenets instead of three.
Follower Belief (Tithe): Christian Temples and Cathedrals generate extra Coin from Christian Followers in their City.
Worship Building (Cathedral): One additional Display slot. Can Display Art. All Art put on Display here doubles as a Christian Relic, generates Coin in addition to Culture, and attracts Pilgrims as well as Tourists.



Core Identity & Tenets

Clerics as Governors: Christianity offers several Tenets that improve City Yields passively if a Christian Cleric is stationed inside the City.

• ANOINTMENT: Clerics can prevent Disease Outbreaks in their Cities.
• BAPTISM: Clerics exert more Religious Pressure when stationed inside a City with Fresh Water.
• BEATIFICATION: Clerics increase the Tile Appeal and Wonder Tourism in their Cities.
• CARDINALIS: Clerics increase the Coin income in their Cities by a set percentages, schaling with the amount of Promotions they have.
• CONFESSION: Clerics decrease the success chances of enemy Espionage or Secret discovery in their vicinity.
• EUCHARISTIA: Clerics increase the Faith income of their City based on the amount of Followers in that city.
• INDULGENTIA: Clerics increase the Coin income of their City based on the amount of Followers in that city.
• JESUIT EDUCATION: Majority Cities or non-Majority which a Cleric is stationed may spend Faith to buy a Blueprint towards an Education Building of choice. The cost goes up by a set percentage each time you use this.
• LAIETY: Decrease the Faith cost of Clerics by a small percentage.

Holy War: Christianity offers bonuses to Military Combat Strength and Health/Morale recovery rates near Christian Cities, irrespective of their owner. Christianity also receives Tenets that allows them to straight up disrupt other Religions, including other Christian Denominations (Heretics).

• CONTRA REFORMATIO: Military units have more Offence against Heretics in Foreign Lands.
• CRUSADE: Military units have bonus Strength against Heathens, more near Heathen-controlled Holy Cities.
• DEUS VULT!: Military units have increased Offence against Heathens in Foreign Lands.
• EXCOMMUNICATE: Your Clerics surpress the effects of foreign Clerics when stationed in an owned Majority City.
• LAST RITES: Increase morale recovery in foreign lands.
• LAY ON HANDS: increased health recovery in foreign lands.
• SALVATION: Increase Food from Military buildings, which are also cheaper to construct.

Church Power: The Christian Church likes to flaunt its wealth, and several Tenets will enable you to build dazzling cities, or reward you for playing towards Culture Tourism Victory.

• CYRILLIC SCRIPT: Increased Knowledge and Religious Pressure from Scriptures. Every Christian player receives a Scripture when this Tenet is adopted.
• ENCYCLICALS: Cathedrals can display Literature. Any L iterature displayed there yields Faith and Production in addition to other Yields and counts as Religious.
• ICONOCLASM: Worship buildings with empty Display slots yield more Faith per empty slot.
• ICONOPHILIA: All World Wonders in Christian Holy Cities are considered Religious. All Worship Buildings receive 1 Display Slot towards a Relic or Scripture.
• PATRIARCHY: Increased Faith and Coin on Wonders, more if they're Religious.
• RETROTABULUM: After you successfully complete any Religious Wonder in a Majority City, receive a Great Artist.
• VADE ET VINCE: The Ecclesiastical Council will designate an additional Christian Holy City after adopting this Tenet, and every second Tenet after this one. Each vote will be held between the two most eligible Cities. Cities belonging to the owner of the previously designated Holy City aren't eligible for this vote.
  • [The Holy Cities will be picked via a set of IF-statements, with Follower Count, amount of Religious Wonders and Location being taken into account

Interfaith Tenets:

• GENESIS: (Shared with Judaism) Whenever a majority City has a Growth event, add a small amount of Culture and Coin to Worship buildings for a set amount of turns.
• GOD IS GREAT: (Shared with Islam): A portion of military upkeep costs are paid for with Faith instead of Coin.
• ICONOGRAPHY: (Shared with Vedism): Increased Architectural Wonder Construction speed in Majority Cities.
• LOVE THYNE NEIGHBOUR: (Shared with Zoroastrianism) Clerics exert more Religious Pressure to foreign border Cities. Improved Relations with Players whose Cities receive extra Christianity Pressure from this Tenet.
• MISICATENGRIN: (Shared with Tengriism) Whenever you complete a World Wonder in a Majority City, discover a Christian Tenet
• MONASTIC ORDERS: (Shared with Eastern Zen) Receive a Knighthood for every second Cleric you recruit after adopting this Tenet.
• PREDESTINATION: [Shared with Buddhism]: Whenever you would receive something at random, Discover between three eligible options instead.

Flavour Tenets:

• CARITAS: Majority Cities have increased Faith based on their Coin output.
• ECUMENISM: Increased Relations with other Christian players, irrespective of Denominations.
• EXCELSIOR: After you have converted a set number of Heathen or Pagan Cities to Christianity, trigger a Festival in the Majority City with the most Followers.
• KYRIE ELEISON: Increased Faith, Housing and Amenities from Medical buildings.
• NATIVITY: After completing a Festival, increase Relations with other players by +1 for a short amount of turns.
• OPUS DEI: Christian Holy Cities receive bonus Production per set amount of Followers in other Countries.
• PENTECOST: Trigger a Festival in all Majority cities a set amount of turns after earning a Great Prophet. (49 turns on Standard)
• PURITANISM: Worship buildings no longer provide Amenities, and instead increase Food and Production for every Amenity they otherwise would have given.
• SCHOLASTICA: Monastery improvements yield extra Knowledge
• SOLEMNITY: Worship buildings grant double Amenities during Festivals.

The list is tentative, so more Tenets may be added later, while others might be tweaked. I'll slowly fold the Religions in, with the next one being Islam.

 

[Lord Lakely]

I understand
Also do the Ancient wonders get Great People Points and did you change the Great Pyramids type
and one more thing: does the Stone Circles Pantheon exist or is it obsolete

They do provide GPP, yes. Only one point per turn though, since they're Ancient Era.

Etemenanki: +1 Great Scientist
Hanging Gardens: +1 Great Engineer
Khufu's Great Pyramid: +1 Great Statesman
Ma'abed of Amrit: +1 Great Merchant
Nazca Lines: +1 Great Engineer
Oracle of Delphi: +1 Great Prophet
Sine Ngayène: +1 Great Prophet
Stonehenge: +1 Great Prophet
Temple of Artemis: +1 Great Commander
Uffington White Horse: +1 Great Artist

Stone Circles has been renamed to the Earth Domain. So if you build Sine Ngayène, you also receive the effects of the Earth God in nearby Pantheon cities.

i'll go and add that information in.

 

[Ryansinbela]

Ok thanks I’ll ask for more later when I add all that is currently available (I asked where the Honey and Linen mentioned in the China First look went but then I read the resources a second time)
Also did you ever explain blueprints?

 

[Lord Lakely]

a 'Blueprint' is essentially a free building that you can place in a City's District. It's similar to the 'Prototype' which is a free unit you can recruit. Both specify what type of constructible they apply to.

 

[Lord Lakely]

Ok thanks I’ll ask for more later when I add all that is currently available (I asked where the Honey and Linen mentioned in the China First look went but then I read the resources a second time)
Also did you ever explain blueprints?

I forgot about them. Let's say we'll add them in a hotfix :3

EDIT: just checked. Linen is already in the game as 'Flax'. Honey has been added.

 

[Ryansinbela]

I forgot about them. Let's say we'll add them in a hotfix :3

EDIT: just checked. Linen is already in the game as 'Flax'. Honey has been added.

I assumed you were saving for DLC (as Bees)
Linen I already knew
Also Lakota has Bison as their start bias despite them being DLC
My guesses on the elements for the unmentioned resources
Fire: Coal, Pitch
Wood: Bamboo, Barley, Cactus, Hardwood, Truffles
Metal: Bauxite, Tin
Water: Citrus, Perfume?, Shellfish
Earth: Game, Lapis Lazuli, Llama, Quartz

Edit: Lacedaemon doesn't have it spawn and bias mentioned
Edit 2: Why does Figs have the Livestock and Meat tag

 

[Lord Lakely]

Lacedaemon spawns on a Rough tile within 2 tiles of a coastline. Their start bias is rough terrain and cliffs. Resource bias is Copper and Wool.

 

[Phrozen]

Eastern Zen seems like a weird grouping and name. They are not very related and Confucianism is more of a cultural/political philosophy rather than religious. Zen of course is just a sect of Buddhism. I guess you could classify Shinto along with other native belief structures that have characteristics of a organized religion but anthropologically speaking are not due to one thing or another as Natural Mysticism.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Eastern Zen seems like a weird grouping and name. They are not very related and Confucianism is more of a cultural/political philosophy rather than religious. Zen of course is just a sect of Buddhism. I guess you could classify Shinto along with other native belief structures that have characteristics of a organized religion but anthropologically speaking are not due to one thing or another as Natural Mysticism.

Yes, Monastic Order fits in more with Buddhism anyways as a shared tenet, considering Zen is a sect of Buddhism.
I wouldn't say Predestination is a thing in Buddhism either. The closest replacement that I can think of is Syncretism, which is a school of Chinese philosophy that combines Taoism, Confucianism, and Legalism etc., if you don't go with Shintoism.

 

[Lord Lakely]

Eastern Zen is mostly based on Chinese Folk Religion yeah. It's far from an ideal name or system, but i believe it's the least bad optionwithin the design space that I'm trying to create here. I see the eastern folk faiths as the baseline religion that eventually evolved into its current forms, as well as Taoism, Confucianism and Shinto, which all developed from local mystical traditions. One mechanic I'm planning for Eastern Zen specifically is that the different denominations do not hate each other.

Rearranging faiths like that offers me the most flexibility as a designer, rly. It's the same reason why 'Vedism' is a Religion over pure Hinduism. Grouping the Indian religions together allows players to draft different Religions mechanically from the same pool in every game. My job would be to create Tenets that would allow Players to found a religion that feels like Jainism or Sikhism from the same pool of Vedic and Hindi Tenets.

The Tenet names won't fully fit, but that's why it's a draft :3 I can always change it later.

Anyway, I'm hoping to get Islam's mechanics up during the weekend. It will be a Faith-based religion intended to be picked late, with mechanics that allow muslim players to catch up on the other religions.

 

[Ryansinbela]

Will there be different tenets for denominations?

 

[Lord Lakely]

No, but there will be Tenets that are named *after* the denominations, reference them and/or use mechanics to offer a distinct experience more in line with that denomination.