Praetyre
King
NOTE: The plan listed here has since been revised, and is included strictly for legacy purposes. See the actual, current plan in post #30.
This is a topic I have raised in the past, and one that I feel possesses significant implications for gaming pace and differentiation of gameplay "style" between the eras, as well as providing a sense of historical progress through this mod's labyrinthine tech tree, which eclipses even the glory that was Call to Power II in it's sheer scope and imagination. Prose aside, here's the scoop:
In my opinion, a roughly equal amount of turns should be allocated to all of the game's eras, irregardless of game speed and irregardless of the actual amount of time each era took up (else one might as well make the Prehistoric thousands of times longer than the Modern) historically. Nonetheless, in the interest of providing the aforementioned sense of historical progress and improving the general atmosphere and realism of the mod, I believe that the differentiations in turn time intervals should correspond to eras and that the amount of time allocated to in-game eras should accurately correspond to some degree with the chronological periods these eras historically covered.
To start with, we need to establish the periods of time each in-game technological era actually represented, by looking at both the general "feel" and aesthetic of that era and at the representative technologies within it. For instance, the "Modern" era obviously represents the post-WWII world, with it's first branching technologies being Radar and Computers. Others, particularily Ancient, Transhuman and Space, are more ambiguous in their boundaries, but with some discussion and some analysis of authorial intent I think we can ferret out where these eras sit in C2C's chronology of human history.
After this, we will need to set a baseline length in game and chronological terms for each era (preferably starting with Eternity speed and going downwards from there, due to the nature of this mod and the fact that starting with Normal would force us to go in two directions for our planning), and try to ensure that, on that speed, technological development and population growth (though much of this would necessitate the smoothing out of the agricultural and implementation of the plagues and diseases system DH and Hydro have discussed in the past) proceeds at a speed congruent with these parameters.
It should be noted that this discussion is entirely seperate from that of Mr. Hydromancerx's project to create "sub-eras" to encompass alternate histories and lost technologies such as steam or cyber-punk. Such eras are neatly bracketed by their point of historical divergence, and as such need no such differentiation.
Without further ado, here is my "rough draft" concept of what the different eras in C2C represent;
Prehistoric (200,000 BC-6000 BC)
Obviously, any given "start" to this era is going to be relatively arbitrary, but I think 200,000 BC is somewhat of a "safe" choice, given that (AFAIK) this is the date to which the earliest anatomically modern humans can be traced, and the sheer uncertainity over the origin (much less the actual date) of language frustrates any attempt to pinpoint this era with even a marginal degree of accuracy. I am also open to 50,000 BC (once my own personal suggestion on the matter due to the Problem of Toba until Thunderbrd persuaded me otherwise) or for ending this era in 12,000 or 10,000 BC instead, a matter I shall discuss more thouroughly in my analysis of the Ancient era.
With 1000 turns allocated to this era under nearly all of my proposals, that works out to 194 years per turn. A somewhat weird number, but a necessary weirdness given that the Ancient era is going to start 2000 BC at the absolute latest, and 198 is just as assymetrical and nonlinear as 194. You'd actually be pretty surprised how fast this era goes by on my autoplay tests- I'd say that on a GEM with a dozen civs it takes 45-90 minutes at most. Still, I think this baseline gives a pretty good representation of the new features this era brings to the table and hopefully proves to be a solid introduction to the intricacies of nomadic gameplay in future versions.
Ancient (6000-2000 BC)
By far the most difficult of the eras to place, this period could variously be described as the Neolithic with it's accompanying agricultural Revolution, the protohistorical Chalcolithic (Copper) Age, ala Empire Earth, the Bronze Age or an admixture thereof. My solution to this chronological conundrum is to "split" this era into two uneven parts, timewise, with the first era lasting 250 turns with each turn covering 16 years (this representing the Copper Age of 6000-2000 BC) and the second era lasting 750 turns, with each turn covering 2 years, representing the Bronze age of 2000-500 BC. Of course, the actual Bronze and Iron Working technologies themselves come right next to each other, but historically many Mesopotamian societies, such as the Assyrians, discovered iron centuries before Europeans did. The term "Bronze Age" is used in more a cultural than a strict technological sense, in much the same way one would not describe Liao Dynasty China as a Renaissance society despite it's utilization of gunpowder, or medieval Korea in the same way for possessing hwacha, one would not and could not count Assyria and the Neo-Chaldean Babylonian Empire as part of the period called "classical antiquity".
As mentioned above, I am open to the notion of beginning this era in 10 or 12,000 BC, given the kickstarter technologies of megalithic construction and livestock domestication can all be dated reliably to the Neolithic. Part of me is tempted to suggest that the first half of this era be merged into Prehistoric, but it's lacking for technologies as is and I've been told the early eras, particularily the Prehistoric, have been set in stone (no pun intended) already. Part of the problem is that unlike Classical antiquity, much of this era, especially pre-2000 BC, is only known about in general terms (i.e. the Middle Kingdom lasted from XX to YY and had Kings Suchandsuch through XY and XZ) rather than in more specific technological or political terms. At the same time though, this very mysterious nature is a big reason why this era needs differentiation from Classical in the first place. Decisions, decisions...
Classical (500 BC-500)
An easy one, and not even that Eurocentric either- the 500s BC were the time of Confucius, Buddha and Lao Tzu as well as Socrates, Aristotle and Plato, while the 500s AD saw the beginning of Japan's Asuka period, the reunification of China under the Sui Dynasty and the Classic Period of the Maya. This period is a simple 1000 turns, 1 year per turn regime. The only snag is the dating of Christianity, but;
A: I don't see technologies as absolute hard and fast limits in our chronology individually, more like pieces of a greater whole that forms the framework of our historically-based simulation. I can easily handle civs dipping a little ahead in their tech tree at the expense of earlier tech projects, much like the Assyrians with Iron Working or the Chinese with Gunpowder.
B: Technologies discovery and widespread usage are distinctly different. The theoretical underpinnings of steam power and electricity have existed for centuries, if not millenia, but only very recently were they actually exercised and put into practical applications. You can similarly compare the 15 year time lapse between the completion of the Manhattan Project and the first municipal nuclear power plant, or the various items on the space shuttle that would later go on to become common household items. In this way, "Theology" gives us somewhat of a clue; the formulation of a proper religious coda and body of beliefs. The Bible was not even completed until a centry after the birth of Christ, and it would take many centuries of debate among the early Christian sects and Church Fathers, along with Constantine's legalization and adoption of it, until most Christians could come to an agreement on the basic tenets and principles of their religion.
I think this dating is solid, and it'd take quite a persuasive argument to sway me otherwise. I'm always open to new ideas though, so don't hesitate to point out any errors I may have made in any of my assessments, historical or otherwise.
Medieval (500-1500)
This was the subject of some internal debate, though only over it's end date rather than it's start. I'll go into more detail in my description of Renaissance. Otherwise, this era's dead easy; just like Classical, it'll be 1000 turns, 1 year per turn.
Renaissance (1500-1850)
This one is tricky at both ends; a decent case can be made for starting this era anywhere from 1300 (it's start in Italy) to 1600 (the Age of Exploration and all that). It possesses a far more mild form of the Ancient era's problem in encompassing multiple real life time periods; that of the Renaissance, Age of Discovery and Age of Reason. The major differences between those eras are in relation to foreign colonies and social-techs, though, while the fundamental technologies and styles of warfare remain largely the same, simply refining themselves over time. I originally went with 1400 as a compromise, but someone provided me a compelling argument for 1500- the sheer power of the Printing Press as the Internet of it's day, and it's role in the Reformation. That's pushed me over to the 1500-camp for now, but as always, my mental door is ajar.
Such a time period works out to 1400 turns, 3 months per turn, an attempt of mine to more greatly emphasize the role of seasons and the change of pace to medieval life the new technologies of this era presented. The multiple "suberas" also provide a fairly compelling reason to lengthen this period IMHO. It's also partly a product of the fact that an 1000-turn era doesn't work well for subyear intervals, especially for such an awkward to divise number as 350.
Industrial (1850-1950)
I originally had this one starting at 1800, but I guess my somewhat limited knowledge of 19th century history betrayed me on this one. Electricity, Assembly Lines, Marxism... all things that quite firmly had their day post 1850. Again, this era is somewhat split, between that of the Industrial Revolution (not just a Euromerican thing, either- look at the Meiji Restoration in Japan for an analagous adaptation) and that of the Wars to End All Wars. Past this point, Eurocentrism isn't an issue anymore, due to Globalization and whatnot. I feel a fortnight is quite a fair change of pace from a month per turn, and so we get 2600 turns, 2 weeks per turn. The unevenness of the Gregorian calendar (a Metric one would certainly solve this conundrum) forces me to adopt such a dreadfully uneven date. The longest of all the eras (and one of the longest of the paragraphs
), but like Renaissance, it's covering broad tracts, and what revolutionary and transformative tracts they are!
An important query: I know the Civ IV engine can handle sub-month turn intervals, but has this or would it be easy to implement this into C2C? I imagine it would be so, given it's cosmetic nature, but for all I know our calendar is bound up in some techno-voodoo that would put the Maya to shame.
Modern (1950-2000)
Pretty straightforward as far as eras go; it's scheme is the same as Industrial, but halved, giving us 1300 turns, 2 weeks per turn.
Transhuman (2000-2050)
Anything past this point is going to be pretty arbitrary, but 2050 is as good a date as any, and feels reasonably distant in the future, but near enough that you can foresee some of it's technological developments (quantum teleportation, biofuels, cloning) in their early stages already, much like how the cannon of the late Middle Ages foreshadowed the invention of the arquebus. Same time and same intervals as Modern, so; 1300 turns, 2 weeks per turn.
Space (2050-2150)
Arbitrary, but it meshes nicely with the previous era's end date. This era is tied with Industrial for length, at 2600 turns, 2 weeks per turn, but I don't see any reason that the pace of life would slow down in this age, and lengthening this era gives the player the ability to fully appreciate it's new features (in future versons, of course).
That adds up to 11,800 turns. I had originally aimed for 10 or 12,000, but 10,000 runs into problems at the end with Space, and I can't find a good place to fit an extra 200 turns in this timeline. Snail would be 5500 (account for the effects of the fortnight-month switch), with all non-submonthly era lengths halved and intervals doubled, Marathon would be 2250 and so on and so forth. Naturally, the factors in the game speed file would have to be properly scaled to account for this as well.
This is a topic I have raised in the past, and one that I feel possesses significant implications for gaming pace and differentiation of gameplay "style" between the eras, as well as providing a sense of historical progress through this mod's labyrinthine tech tree, which eclipses even the glory that was Call to Power II in it's sheer scope and imagination. Prose aside, here's the scoop:
In my opinion, a roughly equal amount of turns should be allocated to all of the game's eras, irregardless of game speed and irregardless of the actual amount of time each era took up (else one might as well make the Prehistoric thousands of times longer than the Modern) historically. Nonetheless, in the interest of providing the aforementioned sense of historical progress and improving the general atmosphere and realism of the mod, I believe that the differentiations in turn time intervals should correspond to eras and that the amount of time allocated to in-game eras should accurately correspond to some degree with the chronological periods these eras historically covered.
To start with, we need to establish the periods of time each in-game technological era actually represented, by looking at both the general "feel" and aesthetic of that era and at the representative technologies within it. For instance, the "Modern" era obviously represents the post-WWII world, with it's first branching technologies being Radar and Computers. Others, particularily Ancient, Transhuman and Space, are more ambiguous in their boundaries, but with some discussion and some analysis of authorial intent I think we can ferret out where these eras sit in C2C's chronology of human history.
After this, we will need to set a baseline length in game and chronological terms for each era (preferably starting with Eternity speed and going downwards from there, due to the nature of this mod and the fact that starting with Normal would force us to go in two directions for our planning), and try to ensure that, on that speed, technological development and population growth (though much of this would necessitate the smoothing out of the agricultural and implementation of the plagues and diseases system DH and Hydro have discussed in the past) proceeds at a speed congruent with these parameters.
It should be noted that this discussion is entirely seperate from that of Mr. Hydromancerx's project to create "sub-eras" to encompass alternate histories and lost technologies such as steam or cyber-punk. Such eras are neatly bracketed by their point of historical divergence, and as such need no such differentiation.
Without further ado, here is my "rough draft" concept of what the different eras in C2C represent;
Prehistoric (200,000 BC-6000 BC)
Obviously, any given "start" to this era is going to be relatively arbitrary, but I think 200,000 BC is somewhat of a "safe" choice, given that (AFAIK) this is the date to which the earliest anatomically modern humans can be traced, and the sheer uncertainity over the origin (much less the actual date) of language frustrates any attempt to pinpoint this era with even a marginal degree of accuracy. I am also open to 50,000 BC (once my own personal suggestion on the matter due to the Problem of Toba until Thunderbrd persuaded me otherwise) or for ending this era in 12,000 or 10,000 BC instead, a matter I shall discuss more thouroughly in my analysis of the Ancient era.
With 1000 turns allocated to this era under nearly all of my proposals, that works out to 194 years per turn. A somewhat weird number, but a necessary weirdness given that the Ancient era is going to start 2000 BC at the absolute latest, and 198 is just as assymetrical and nonlinear as 194. You'd actually be pretty surprised how fast this era goes by on my autoplay tests- I'd say that on a GEM with a dozen civs it takes 45-90 minutes at most. Still, I think this baseline gives a pretty good representation of the new features this era brings to the table and hopefully proves to be a solid introduction to the intricacies of nomadic gameplay in future versions.
Ancient (6000-2000 BC)
By far the most difficult of the eras to place, this period could variously be described as the Neolithic with it's accompanying agricultural Revolution, the protohistorical Chalcolithic (Copper) Age, ala Empire Earth, the Bronze Age or an admixture thereof. My solution to this chronological conundrum is to "split" this era into two uneven parts, timewise, with the first era lasting 250 turns with each turn covering 16 years (this representing the Copper Age of 6000-2000 BC) and the second era lasting 750 turns, with each turn covering 2 years, representing the Bronze age of 2000-500 BC. Of course, the actual Bronze and Iron Working technologies themselves come right next to each other, but historically many Mesopotamian societies, such as the Assyrians, discovered iron centuries before Europeans did. The term "Bronze Age" is used in more a cultural than a strict technological sense, in much the same way one would not describe Liao Dynasty China as a Renaissance society despite it's utilization of gunpowder, or medieval Korea in the same way for possessing hwacha, one would not and could not count Assyria and the Neo-Chaldean Babylonian Empire as part of the period called "classical antiquity".
As mentioned above, I am open to the notion of beginning this era in 10 or 12,000 BC, given the kickstarter technologies of megalithic construction and livestock domestication can all be dated reliably to the Neolithic. Part of me is tempted to suggest that the first half of this era be merged into Prehistoric, but it's lacking for technologies as is and I've been told the early eras, particularily the Prehistoric, have been set in stone (no pun intended) already. Part of the problem is that unlike Classical antiquity, much of this era, especially pre-2000 BC, is only known about in general terms (i.e. the Middle Kingdom lasted from XX to YY and had Kings Suchandsuch through XY and XZ) rather than in more specific technological or political terms. At the same time though, this very mysterious nature is a big reason why this era needs differentiation from Classical in the first place. Decisions, decisions...
Classical (500 BC-500)
An easy one, and not even that Eurocentric either- the 500s BC were the time of Confucius, Buddha and Lao Tzu as well as Socrates, Aristotle and Plato, while the 500s AD saw the beginning of Japan's Asuka period, the reunification of China under the Sui Dynasty and the Classic Period of the Maya. This period is a simple 1000 turns, 1 year per turn regime. The only snag is the dating of Christianity, but;
A: I don't see technologies as absolute hard and fast limits in our chronology individually, more like pieces of a greater whole that forms the framework of our historically-based simulation. I can easily handle civs dipping a little ahead in their tech tree at the expense of earlier tech projects, much like the Assyrians with Iron Working or the Chinese with Gunpowder.
B: Technologies discovery and widespread usage are distinctly different. The theoretical underpinnings of steam power and electricity have existed for centuries, if not millenia, but only very recently were they actually exercised and put into practical applications. You can similarly compare the 15 year time lapse between the completion of the Manhattan Project and the first municipal nuclear power plant, or the various items on the space shuttle that would later go on to become common household items. In this way, "Theology" gives us somewhat of a clue; the formulation of a proper religious coda and body of beliefs. The Bible was not even completed until a centry after the birth of Christ, and it would take many centuries of debate among the early Christian sects and Church Fathers, along with Constantine's legalization and adoption of it, until most Christians could come to an agreement on the basic tenets and principles of their religion.
I think this dating is solid, and it'd take quite a persuasive argument to sway me otherwise. I'm always open to new ideas though, so don't hesitate to point out any errors I may have made in any of my assessments, historical or otherwise.
Medieval (500-1500)
This was the subject of some internal debate, though only over it's end date rather than it's start. I'll go into more detail in my description of Renaissance. Otherwise, this era's dead easy; just like Classical, it'll be 1000 turns, 1 year per turn.
Renaissance (1500-1850)
This one is tricky at both ends; a decent case can be made for starting this era anywhere from 1300 (it's start in Italy) to 1600 (the Age of Exploration and all that). It possesses a far more mild form of the Ancient era's problem in encompassing multiple real life time periods; that of the Renaissance, Age of Discovery and Age of Reason. The major differences between those eras are in relation to foreign colonies and social-techs, though, while the fundamental technologies and styles of warfare remain largely the same, simply refining themselves over time. I originally went with 1400 as a compromise, but someone provided me a compelling argument for 1500- the sheer power of the Printing Press as the Internet of it's day, and it's role in the Reformation. That's pushed me over to the 1500-camp for now, but as always, my mental door is ajar.
Such a time period works out to 1400 turns, 3 months per turn, an attempt of mine to more greatly emphasize the role of seasons and the change of pace to medieval life the new technologies of this era presented. The multiple "suberas" also provide a fairly compelling reason to lengthen this period IMHO. It's also partly a product of the fact that an 1000-turn era doesn't work well for subyear intervals, especially for such an awkward to divise number as 350.
Industrial (1850-1950)
I originally had this one starting at 1800, but I guess my somewhat limited knowledge of 19th century history betrayed me on this one. Electricity, Assembly Lines, Marxism... all things that quite firmly had their day post 1850. Again, this era is somewhat split, between that of the Industrial Revolution (not just a Euromerican thing, either- look at the Meiji Restoration in Japan for an analagous adaptation) and that of the Wars to End All Wars. Past this point, Eurocentrism isn't an issue anymore, due to Globalization and whatnot. I feel a fortnight is quite a fair change of pace from a month per turn, and so we get 2600 turns, 2 weeks per turn. The unevenness of the Gregorian calendar (a Metric one would certainly solve this conundrum) forces me to adopt such a dreadfully uneven date. The longest of all the eras (and one of the longest of the paragraphs
), but like Renaissance, it's covering broad tracts, and what revolutionary and transformative tracts they are!An important query: I know the Civ IV engine can handle sub-month turn intervals, but has this or would it be easy to implement this into C2C? I imagine it would be so, given it's cosmetic nature, but for all I know our calendar is bound up in some techno-voodoo that would put the Maya to shame.
Modern (1950-2000)
Pretty straightforward as far as eras go; it's scheme is the same as Industrial, but halved, giving us 1300 turns, 2 weeks per turn.
Transhuman (2000-2050)
Anything past this point is going to be pretty arbitrary, but 2050 is as good a date as any, and feels reasonably distant in the future, but near enough that you can foresee some of it's technological developments (quantum teleportation, biofuels, cloning) in their early stages already, much like how the cannon of the late Middle Ages foreshadowed the invention of the arquebus. Same time and same intervals as Modern, so; 1300 turns, 2 weeks per turn.
Space (2050-2150)
Arbitrary, but it meshes nicely with the previous era's end date. This era is tied with Industrial for length, at 2600 turns, 2 weeks per turn, but I don't see any reason that the pace of life would slow down in this age, and lengthening this era gives the player the ability to fully appreciate it's new features (in future versons, of course).
That adds up to 11,800 turns. I had originally aimed for 10 or 12,000, but 10,000 runs into problems at the end with Space, and I can't find a good place to fit an extra 200 turns in this timeline. Snail would be 5500 (account for the effects of the fortnight-month switch), with all non-submonthly era lengths halved and intervals doubled, Marathon would be 2250 and so on and so forth. Naturally, the factors in the game speed file would have to be properly scaled to account for this as well.
spiraled off into oblivian and hasn't managed to leave the prehistoric era... and I'm in transhuman era... that they should spontaniously jump to the modern era because I looked at them funny?
