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Tips about the UN victory

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Timo33, Jan 28, 2014.

  1. Timo33

    Timo33 Chieftain

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    Hi guys !

    Im currently playing a game as Hatchepsout, and i'm in such a good position that a Domination/Conquest victory would be really easy. Thus i think i'm gonna go a different route, and i wanna try the Diplomatic victory, something that i'm not familiar with.

    So i'm looking for tips for winning by diplomacy. What to do, what not to do...

    More specifically, i'm posting my 1030AD save. It's still pretty early to plan a diplo win i guess, idk. I almost never won by UN before because i'm usually bad at diplomacy. Therefore i feel like i need to plan things a long time ago otherwise i'm gonna screw everything.

    Basically here's the situation:
    1030AD, 10 cities, I just lib'd Astro and i'm on my way to Nationalism for the Taj Mahal. I'm sharing my continent with Suryavarman (only 7 cities) who's been struggling dealing with a surprisingly good Churchill (11 cities). These 2 guys like me thanks to the religion i've spread everywhere. They don't like each other though.
    On the other continents:
    Washington (or Roosevelt), isolated, is very backwards. Willem von Orange is in the same situation. I'm the only one they know yet.
    The 2 remaining AIs are Cyrus and Bismark, sharing the same continent. They know only me as well, love each other, like me thanks to "fair" trades, and Cyrus owns the Hindu AP.

    So: what would be the strategy if i wanna go for the UN win?
     

    Attached Files:

  2. pomthom

    pomthom Drive & Reverb

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    Can't open a game (you forgot the attachment btw) but basically you need to secure 62% of the world population to vote for you. The idea is that vassals and dudes that have at least +8 with you will vote for you. 1 pop = 1 vote

    Aside from your vassals you can secure these votes by getting various diplo bonuses of which the most common are: religion & civics (very easy for you since your SPI and can be changed at last minute), fair trade, shared wars, liberating cities, providing resources.... you gotta choose the dudes that you want to vote for you and vassal them or suck up to them by these means (careful with vassals because an AI that is at +8 towards you and doesn't like 1 of your vassals will not vote for you for example). Ignore the rest (or use them as shared war targets).

    Other than that, you have to optimize your tech path so that you get to UN the fastest way possible. The most common way of doing that is GS bulbing through Sci Meth > Physics > Electricity. If you have a GE up your sleeve you can also keep him to rush the UN (no need however if you get your hands on Assembly Line in the meantime).


    If you have a strong position, the best is still to grab a lot of land through war with neighbours and grow your cities (wipe Sury out for ex, don't vassal him). You'll have a lot of votes and won't have to suck up to many different AIs...

    People will probably give more useful/specific advice with your save
     
  3. marjen

    marjen Chieftain

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    In my games when I decide to go for a UN victory, I try to determine early on who I will be running against in the elections. First you have to decide:

    Are you going to be the one who builds the UN are or you going to let the AI do it?

    If you let the AI build it then you will need to be in the #1 position in score or #2 IF the AI that builds it is in the #1 position. Then you will know who your running against. If you build it then you will always be in the elections.

    Once I determine who I may be running against then I try to turn the rest of the world against that AI player. In my experience I have found that its not how much the other AI's like you, but more do they hate the AI you are running against more than they hate you. Of course you do have to have good diplo points with the rest of the world to get the votes, but I really think it boils down to what the other AI's think of who you are running against.

    I also try to make the other AI's that I'm not running against as happy toward me as possible.

    For what its worth, I know there are ALOT more folks here on the forums with much more experience than I have, and they may correct me as well on what I said here, but at least this works for me on Monarch. It will be interesting to see what they have to say.
     
  4. Timo33

    Timo33 Chieftain

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    Oops. I attached the save in the first post, thanks Pomthom :p


    Regarding what you said:

    the GS bulb path will be fairly easy to go for, since i have 2 GS at the moment. I didn't know what to do with them. I was thinking GA + partially bulbing printing press... But PP will not help i guess.

    About the ways to get AI to vote for me: religions i'm pretty scared about it, i have 2 friends thanks to being jewish, but once i'll swap or go free Religion i'll lose these bonuses. Since everbody has a different religion, it seems difficult for me to handle religion swap.
    I agree that it would be better to just conquer some ais, get big, have vasals. But in this case i'd just go for Domination if you know what i mean :p and going for war would involve researching rifling/steel/etc...

    What is a correct finish date for UN victory?


    @Marjen
    Thanks for the advices.
    I think i'll have to build the UN myself, because i'm really ahead in techs. I'd need to gift a considerable number of techs to make an Ai build the UN, i dont think it's worth it.
    I can't say for sure, but i think Churchill will be my opponent on the UN once i build it.
     
  5. Packers5280

    Packers5280 Deity

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    You would need to be #1 in population not score.

    To get an AI to vote for you for the UN you need to have an overall +8 diplo with them, or have them as your vassal. You can manipulate the diplo by shared war, gifting/liberating cities, shared religion, shared civics, tech trades, and the trading bonus.

    If you want to choose who you will run against, for example if the number 2 pop AI is your buddy and you want his vote, you can gift the UN city to the AI. If you reduce an AI to less than 3 cities, they will accept any city from you regardless of the distance from their capital or if its in the middle of your territory. So you can build the UN, and then gift it to your opponent.
     
  6. marjen

    marjen Chieftain

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    @Packers5280
    Thanks for clarifying that. I did mean #1 in Pop, but I have assumed that #1 in pop is also #1 in score (but not always), so you are correct in clarifying that. Thanks!!
     
  7. pomthom

    pomthom Drive & Reverb

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    Some AIs will themselves be in Free Religion and won't mind yours, some AIs don't care too much about religion and some AIs will like you so much for other reasons that it will compensate for a different religion. You can also influence religion via espionage or trading (which you must do just before the vote). You generally have many options (it depends on who your opponents are and religious cartography), and being Spiritual gives you a lot of flexibility in that matter.


    :lol: yes well I'm not saying you should go all out war, just that it helps to get bigger and conquering a neighbour on same continent is reasonable. If war is an available option you should always consider it.

    :spear:

    Define "correct". :lol:

    What difficulty you playin? On standard settings, Imm/Emp difficulty, non-HoF start, 1800 AD+ is standard (a bit slow), ~1500/600 AD is good, <1300 AD is very good.
     
  8. Sun Tzu Wu

    Sun Tzu Wu Deity Supporter

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    The following ways to improve one's diplomacy have not been mentioned yet:

    1. Open borders for 25t = +1 diplomacy; 50t = +2 diplomacy
    2. Provide 50 resource turns = +1 diplomacy; 100 resource turns = +2 diplomacy (i.e. 5 resources for 10/20 turns)
    3. Trade n multiples of 5/7/10/20 (depending on which AI) technologies to an AI provides the shared technology +1 * n diplomacy
    4. 60 turns of peace = +1 diplomacy
    5. Defensive pact - n multiples of 10t provides +1 * n diplomacy up to a limit
    6. Shared war - n multiples of 8t provides +1 * n diplomacy up to a limit

    My apologies for repeating any that were already mentioned. An example of #3 above is trading 10 technologies to Mansa Musa will provide +2 diplomacy with him.

    Sun Tzu Wu
     
  9. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    I think you still need much more pop. At present far too random. Remember if an AI likes someone else more they will vote for them.

    1-2 vassels could help. Merely beelining UN here is a tad risky unless you can ensure most Ai will vote for you.
     
  10. Sun Tzu Wu

    Sun Tzu Wu Deity Supporter

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    Normally, one doesn't need high population for a diplomatic victory. (It can even be won via One City Challenge.) One strategy is declaring war on a leader that everyone hates and bribe every other leader to declare war. As others have mentioned, you will need to ensure that your opponent will be less well liked than you; ideally, someone everyone else hates.

    On the other hand, the strategy of giving the United Nations to the most hated leader works best when you have the highest population to ensure being a Secretary-General candidate. If your hated opponent already has the highest population, you may not need to give him the UN to ensure he is a candidate.

    Sun Tzu Wu
     
  11. Timo33

    Timo33 Chieftain

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    Thanks for the advices guys :) and sorry for the time i took to answer.
    I guess i'll go for some war in my continent, conquer Churchill and sury (should be easy despite churchill being protective), and then just tech to the UN.
    I'll need to take care of the relations, not only mine but my potential opponent as well. I said ealier that my opponent would most likely be Churchill, but if i attack him he's out of the way. I need to chose someone else, can't say for sure right now since nobody knows nobody yet.

    BTW, @Pomthom: i'm playing on Emperor

    EdIT: regarding war in my continent: Churchill has protective longbows, i don't think going for Cuirassiers would be good enough. I guess i should go for cannons ?
     
  12. Ghpstage

    Ghpstage Deity

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    Cuirassiers should be more than enough against Longbows, Protective or not.
     
  13. Packers5280

    Packers5280 Deity

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    Curs can handle protective longbows. The odds are roughly around 40-45%, so two per LB would be fine. I know I've taken on protective LB's with curs at Immortal just fine. Just keep the pressure on him. He does not have engineering or machinery atm either. Pikes are a bit worse to deal with than protective LB's so Sury could be more of a challenge in 4 turns when he gets engineering. Not to mention, you can take 3 cities in 1st turn of the war with Church if you go with curs before he realizes whats going on.

    Churchill can still be your opponent. Just don't vassalize him. You could build the UN in one of his old cities, and then give that city back to him, provided you are 1st in population, which you are right now. If you take most of Church and Sury, you will easily be #1 in pop.
     
  14. whitelaughter

    whitelaughter Warlord

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    Only thing I've noticed is that repeatedly bribing a rival to attack a well liked civ works well. Sure, the victim civ will hate you, until they're obliterated - but while everyone else hates the attacker, they don't blame you.

    Of course, that only stops people from voting for your rival; it doesn't actually get them to vote for you.
     
  15. LincolnOfRome

    LincolnOfRome Glutton for Punishment

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    That include barracks/stable/theocracy/vassalage on the curs? or unpromoted? city culture?

    I like to send spies a few turns in advance for city revolts when I attack. In my experience, curs can really dominate protective longbows when properly promoted and supported by spies.
     
  16. Thrar

    Thrar King

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    Longbow: base strength 6
    CG1, 2: +50%
    fortified in city: +50%
    city defense: + 60%

    Total 15.6 on flat land, 18.6 on a hill.

    Cuirs have strength 12, with C2 that's 14.4. Add in the first strikes, you're probably looking at odds somewhere in the 30s, maybe high 20s on a hill.

    If the large majority of your cuirs doesn't have 5 XP, you're doing something wrong. Sure, a small backwater whipping out a cuir or two won't have barracks/stable, but for the core cities building the majority of them, there's no excuse.
     
  17. Packers5280

    Packers5280 Deity

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    I believe those odds are with the cover 2 promotion so barracks, stable, and theocracy. Athough, cover 1 would not be too far behind. That's also on non-hill cities. Hills would be a few percentage points left. I typically do not run vassalage much. As for culture, I'm not sure. I think 40% culture. Usually the AI will have castles, so it changes the culture with curs. I don't pay much attention really to odds when I cur rush, at least enough attention to remember the odds.

    I think my odds are of survival, not winning. So there is going to be some % towards withdrawal.
     
  18. Thrar

    Thrar King

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    Are you playing a modded game?

    In stock BtS:
    - cover is not available for mounted units
    - adding theocracy to barracks and stable gives you 7 XP, which won't give you any additional promotion over just barracks and stable
    - walls and castles have no effect on cuirs
     
  19. Packers5280

    Packers5280 Deity

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    Not cover, whatever the 10% bonus is. I never really learned the official name of the promotions.

    When I get into war mode, I go with barracks, stable, and theocracy. I didn't recall the overall XP, just that it was enough for a level 2 unit. And I know that walls and castles have no effect on cuirs. Its just that I do not pay much attention to what the culture drops to when I have a cur selected. Anything else selected at the time shows the 100% culture defense. I'm also going from memory right now, as I don't have access to the game atm.
     

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