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Tips for Emperor level?

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by Kaidonni, Dec 11, 2009.

  1. Kaidonni

    Kaidonni Chieftain

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    I've considered venturing on to Emperor level lately, and while I can take care of city placement and maximising efficiency, my main problem lies in technology. Now, playing Monarch, in my one campaign I am ahead in the technology race (IA, everyone else is either still MA or even AA), got my side of the continent I'm on all nicely defended. My closest neighbours are on the other side of some heavily defended Barricades of mine (and trust me, I needed them, got some nice bottlenecks - a two square block and a four square block, on Hills and Forest, two of these even happen to be across a River, and boy did they protect me from massive Aztec invasion forces!). All other neighbours are very far away indeed. I'm consolidating my part of the continent, eliminating a small, primitive civilisation that remains there so that they don't pose any threat in future (the Japanese).

    But, in all of this...if I go to Emperor level, I'm scared of the technology race. I know I will no longer be able to keep up with the pace of the AI, given their tech cost factor at that level. I also know it's something to do with researching certain technologies and then trading these for multiple cheaper ones with other civs, gaining monopolies.

    I have already started a modified Marla Singer's World Map for C3C, 31 civs, playing as Carthage (renamed to Normandy :king: - I just cannot resist personalising civs). I altered Curraghs to have 1 transport capacity (I sort of liked the idea of starting on the British Isles and spreading out from there, even changed the start location slightly so it wasn't on bonus Grassland + Wheat). I'm researching Writing, not that far in. Where might I go from here? I have encountered Egypt and India, and amongst other things they can offer me Warrior Code and Bronze Working, also Pottery (is it that? I think so...can't remember off the top of my head). What do I do with my Writing? Do I wait until I have encountered other civs? How do I stop them from simply trading Writing onwards should I trade it to them first?

    Oh, and I altered Corruption to 50% for the scenario for Emperor level (such a large map, so it might be beneficial).
     
  2. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    Here's a decent guide for research. It has its flaws, but it'll do for a start. The key lies in trading for techs. Also, the best general advice I can give you comes as to post a save.
     
  3. Kaidonni

    Kaidonni Chieftain

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    I'm not really that far into my game at the moment to be able to post a save, not really in a mess yet. I am using all the Cows and Wheat I can, even settling on Hills to avoid wasting Game in Forests or Cows on Grassland. I can't use the potential full fat-X on the British Isles, of course, so I'm having to slot the settlements with the intention of maximising the squares used without wasting any. Going to get a second settler to settle on Ireland. Then I will look to invading the continent, maybe taking out Egypt (I hope...it is Emperor level, and they do have extra starting units). If it weren't for me modding the Curragh, I'd have chosen a different start position because I would have been trapped there, as would any AI, although I recall reading that they don't bother with Curraghs (but I just wanted to experiment with the British Isles).
     
  4. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    First of all, I'd suggest hitting the War Academy. Look for an article called "The Great Leap: Monarch to Emperor," in addition to reading the article that Spoonwood linked for you. The hardest change for me going from Monarch to Emperor was the happiness issue. Having only 1 content citizen to start pushes the importance of luxuries up considerably.

    On the tech front, if you're doing this to this to the AI,
    then I'd say you'll be OK at Emperor. You'll have to do a bit more trading than you had to at Monarcch to keep up, but it's certainly manageable.

    I'd say this depends on your tech plan. That, of course, depends on how you want to win. I'm assuming this is not a variant, such as AW or OCC. With that assumption, spread out and fill your landmass. Get some curraghs in the water, and go make contacts. Use CA2 or MapStat to monitor what everyone knows, tech-wise.

    If you want to go for the Republic slingshot, Writing makes a nice bottleneck. If I get a decent start & REX phase, I'll hold Writing until CoL is almost done (if I can), then trade it around for gold & techs. Then start on Philo for the Republic slingshot. If I get a bad start, or if I'm going to go for Monarchy (like in AW), I'll often go from Writing straight to Philosophy. I'll hold Writing until I'm almost done with Philo (again, if I can). If I see that someone else has gotten Writing, I may trade it around, hopefully before they can.

    Beyond that, posting a save and some screenshots will go a long way towards getting you some better advice.
     
  5. Kaidonni

    Kaidonni Chieftain

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    I prefer Monarchy to Republic, to be honest (extra unit support, no war weariness). It's just that I expect the AI to out pace me in tech UNLESS I do something like trade for techs (I could technically go for Monarchy that way, I guess...although it's wise for me to make sure I don't sideline other technologies that will help me out a lot). I've never really done trading for techs before. I guess now is the time for me to learn. I'll definitely have to do some aggressive expansion, 31 civs on that map is pushing it. All of Europe will be populated, so lots of fighting (to expand beyond three settlements I'm going to have to fight even with just one civ).

    I hadn't played all that many Monarch-level games, to be honest, and have never actually finished a game. That said, I've definitely learnt how to be more efficient. Way back, this time last year, and earlier, I'd be struggling with technology. Over time, it seems like I've found it easier and easier to be ahead. Twice now I've slingshot for Monarchy (but this time I'm not Expansionist, nor are there enough nearby, convenient Goody Huts, so I cannot expect easy techs that way).

    I'm focusing on Workers and Settlers at the moment. Two workers, settled my second settlement, need another settler for Ireland. One Worker on the British Isles, though, because with the pop drops and the improvements I have made, it'd be a waste to spam them when I can easily get another soon enough when I need to speed up tile improvements. I'm also going to focus a bit on Curraghs so I can keep one around my cities to allow transport, and some to increase my contacts (that way, the more contacts I have, the more I can prevent the AI eliminating my middle-man potential...I can get all the techs I need from one or two civs, and gpt from others when there are no more techs to trade for at any given time).
     
  6. vmxa

    vmxa Chieftain

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    Monarchy is not worth a darn, unless you plan to do a lot of fighting, then it is great. If hope to not do a lot of fighting, then you are far ahead to go republic. Research is so much better with the extra gold.

    It is not the amount of wars you get into, but hope long they last and how well you do in them. If you can keep the wars to 10 or so turns and not take a lot of losses, you are fine. 31 nations will likely mean a fair amount of fighting, unless you can get too strong for them.

    Never played Marla's map afaik, but I have played many max nation games. Techs will not have a long shelf life, so be prepared to trade sooner. That many nations will soon be talking and trading. If you have huts, the AA will go quickly.
     
  7. vmxa

    vmxa Chieftain

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    BTW what map version of Marla's is it? Is it the one called 3Q or 3X or did you find another version?
     
  8. Kaidonni

    Kaidonni Chieftain

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    Well, it's the one that comes with Civ III Complete, in the Civ-Content section, and the editor reads it as bix.biq (although my personalised version is a .biq. Also using Warpstorm Water Colour Terrain.

    On the wars aspect, I suspect I will want to fight a lot, especially for the lush lands of Europe. War weariness will do me no good there, and you know what the RNG is like...

    Oh, and I just thought it wise to take a Warrior to Iceland (Goody Hut there). Might do me some good (and in that case, I could always take that Curragh all the way to America, and then into the Pacific - plenty of huts there on those islands.
     
  9. vmxa

    vmxa Chieftain

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    Hum, the Earth map is a BIC for me as it was only ever made for vanilla by Marla. It can be loaded in C3C as it will show up in the civ-content. I did down load the 3Q map that someone (pulsar?) made from her map for conquest.

    It had the new nations and resources embedded iirc.
     
  10. Kaidonni

    Kaidonni Chieftain

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    Just been trading around for low level techs by giving ones I *know* will quickly be traded by other AIs (Masonry for a start). Now got Warrior Code, Ceremonial Burial, Bronze Working and The Wheel from trading, had some gold (not per turn...the AIs refused). Got Writing, but gonna save it up. I can at least take Numidian Mercenaries and Archers on to the mainland now. But should I go for Map Making next? Hmmm...

    I'm trading like crazy each civ I meet, because I know they will get these cheap techs if I don't trade them, and I'll miss out. I have done some experimenting, though (reloading :eek:), because I needed to know if it was wise to dilly-dally and risk the AIs trading dirt-cheap techs. Wasn't worth waiting. At least Writing should be safe, could get Iron Working and Mysticism (and trust me...hehe, gonna try Monarch slingshot somehow here).
     
  11. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    My advice: post a save... EVEN IF IT'S 4000 BC.
     
  12. Kaidonni

    Kaidonni Chieftain

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    Okay, here's a .zip file. It contains the modified scenario file, the folder with the watercolour terrain, and both the autosave for 4000BC and my most recent save. The saves, of course, into the saves folder, the rest into the Conquests scenario folder. I included the other stuff apart from the saves because I don't know if you need that to be able to view my saves, so if you don't, then, well...you learn something new everyday. LOL. Even things not to do with Emperor level gameplay.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. vmxa

    vmxa Chieftain

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    We should not need any of the stuff, unless you have added in new units or things we would get errors for missing. Warpstorms water color would just not show up, by not cause an error.
     
  14. Kaidonni

    Kaidonni Chieftain

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    Well, I did edit the Curragh to have a transport capacity of 1, so...

    Making inroads on the continent now. A settlement founded there (took two Egyptian tiles and an Indian tile when settling it :mischief:). I think Thebes would be a good target, being two tiles from Caen. Won't keep it, because some forest right next to it, to the south-west, might be a better spot (especially for when I expand Caen, I dunno...). I just don't want to keep Thebes, because I want optimum city placement for myself, and I might get a whole load extra squares without cultural expansion buildings if I move any settlement to that tile. Now is probably the best time to shop around for Iron Working, etc (Swordsmen will come in really handy, and in the editor, I saw Iron on the British Isles...and I've already roaded the necessary tile for my transport network :lol:).

    It's turning out that most civs just have nothing to offer in return, not gold, techs or workers. I figure that when I trade expensive techs, it's gonna be to some of the more efficient civs, and I'll have to get what I can out of others, even if it's one or two workers (it's better than nothing!).
     
  15. Optional

    Optional Chieftain

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    The AI almost never has any GPT in the AA. They start to get that with Currency, and then if they're also in a GA they can actually have quite some GPT in the AA, but normally you to wait for them to be in a proper government before they begin splashing their money about.
    EDIT: you can't trade for workers yet, since there's water between you and the AI, and no harbours.

    I could upload your save fine. An altered value for an existing unit is not a problem, as these values from the bic. (biq.?) just get transmitted into the saves. There would only be a problem if you would have new units or buildings in your scenario, say a canoe. Then other people's game would go crash, as it would have no clue what a canoe is (file not found error).

    Looking at your save (2550 BC, still only 3 towns) I would probably have built a few more warriors before starting on a Numidian. One warrior for three towns is a bit skimpy for this level. At Emperor, the second citizen is already born unhappy, and in this save you need to put up your lux slider to 20% to keep Falaise from rioting, this slows down your research somewhat.
    I don't know if there are barbarians on this map, but putting one warrior on the central mountain in Scotland would eliminate the barbarian threat completely. After some warriors I would have built a barracks and built further units from there.

    You might be building your settlers a touch too early; I'm noticing Bayeux is gonna drop down to size 1 after having built the next settler. I prefer to not let my main towns drop below size 3. Maybe a granery would still have been a good idea in this save.

    I'm not familiar with this map, or this type of map, but I suspect with so many opponants it's even more crucial to stay ahead in the tech race than on a normal map. You seem to be aware of the strength of the seafaring trait; I see curraghs going out in every direction, and you've already met many other civs.
    What could be a powerful instrument on this map is sign alliances with a peace treaty tied in. I don' know if you're familiar with the technique, but if you put the peace treaty on the table when you're signing an alliance with a civ, and they're not sticking out the full 20 turns, they're automatically declaring war on you, giving you war happiness. Since I'm not seeing any lux nearby, this might be a good way to keep your people happy, and considering the amount of opponants you have and the war plans you have anyway, this could be very helpful.

    One technical point: if you upload a save, make it a manual save, not an autosave - just choose to save again after uploading the autosave in game to do this. Reason is that autosaves are about 10 times as heavy as manual saves; that's the main reason why your upload is 8 Mb. No sweat, though.
     
  16. Kaidonni

    Kaidonni Chieftain

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    Thanks for the tips. I've moved on quite a few turns now, but I'm experimenting with tech trading, and am jumping between saves. I ought to get Civ Assist, it'd probably help me better determine when to trade. I know reloading is a bit cheap...but I promise not to reload any battles. It's just the tech-trading (and pressing the wrong button...how many times do I have to reload when I accidentally give a tech as a gift?! Grrr!).

    That Settler from Bayeux has become a very useful town called Caen now, on the mainland. I'm going to keep Bayeux with a higher pop from now on.

    And yeah...about the luxury slider. I was sort of thinking that military police were a bad idea at the moment, but come to think about it, if I'm getting nice amounts of gold for tech trading, then I can afford using free maintenance on military police... EDIT: Okay...I am using Warriors now as Military Police in those three settlements, and my Numidian is on the continent defending Caen. Would you suggest I perhaps have two Military Police, though, rather than one? More gold for maintenance, but quicker research.

    My only regret at the moment is not putting a Warrior on one of my Curraghs heading down along the coast of Africa, so I could pop Goody Huts...

    EDIT: Thebes taken out. Lost one Archer and one Swordsman. Archers do well against Spearmen, heh.
     
  17. Optional

    Optional Chieftain

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    In the unmodded game each town supports 4 units in despotism. In your 2550 BC save your 3 towns can support 12 units. You had only 7; you were still a handful of units away from paying maintanance for them.

    Oh, definitely get CivAssist! You don't want to play a trading game in the dark, having to find everything by touch, when a torch is available. ;)
     
  18. Kaidonni

    Kaidonni Chieftain

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    Well, I had sorted the MP issue out by the time you posted about it, but in a later save. I'm trying to keep 2 MPs for each settlement, and given that now I have 788 gold in 1675BC, I can take negative income if need be. I'm sort of focusing on Archers at the moment, my Swordsmen just do terrible. I've noticed that, if you want to beat a Spearman (or Pikeman), ranged is rather useful. In my last Monarch game, every battle with Longbowmen, either by me or against me, seemed very one-sided in favour of the Longbowmen...

    I rushed an Archer at Thebes (only thing I could rush with 2 pop) then abandoned it so I could place a settlement in a far better location a tile to the south west. Don't think Thebes had fresh water (the demolished tile has 0 Gold), so I might be in a better position anyway (saves me building an Aquaduct).

    Opinion...is it wise to spam a few towns near my mountains in Britain, around Scotland, and build Harbours, and make use of all the commerce I could get? I'm thinking it would at least give me extra gpt, speed up research, extra maintenance...

    Just 2 turns for a Granary in Bayeux now (will grow every 2 turns then). Going to Mine my Iron for extra shields.
     
  19. vmxa

    vmxa Chieftain

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    In a std game, LB are attack 4 and do fine against AA units and some MA units. The problem is that they have defense of 1. That tends to get them killed on defense. The other large detraction for them is that they do not have a useful upgrade. It is more than an age later, when 1 move is just not good enough.

    MDI at least have defense of 2. Swords are cheap and have the same defense as spears, so early in the game, they are fine. They also upgrade early in the next age to attack 4.
     
  20. Kaidonni

    Kaidonni Chieftain

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    Disaster! :cry:

    Those bloomin' Byzantines took my Philosophy! They actually got it when I had 4 turns left! They will pay for this! I was wondering where to expand to next...peace with Egypt sounds right - afterall they don't have FURS!

    I mean, I could have somehow traded for Polytheism just before, then got Monarchy as my free tech! And what's more, the free tech the Byzantines chose is Map Making! THAT'S MINE! Argh! :mad:
     

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