Tips for moving up to deity?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by chazzycat, Aug 22, 2011.

  1. RedRover57

    RedRover57 Emperor

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    They do come easier, but it is still a crapshoot on Deity in terms of the start. It sounds like there are a lot of people in the same boat as I am, with Deity being very challenging (as it should be), but Immortal being way too easy. It seems like there should be a difficulty level in between the current Immortal and Deity. Sometimes I just don't feel like playing through the tedium of a Deity game, but Immortal is too boring when you faceroll the AI.
     
  2. qalsip1977

    qalsip1977 Wonder Lust

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    Deity is more challenging, but it's almost predictable now that I've played it for a few months, so it's like I kinda know what each AI is going to do...which makes it much easier than the first few 100 times I tried it lol.

    If I lose a deity game...it's generally in the first 100 turns. If my start doesn't go as planned then I'll stop the game. If it does...I win 60-70% of the time (the AI likes to backstab out of the blue sometimes). Unfortunately it's in that 100 turns that most game are decided anyway...so if I am going science and get beat to the GL or something like that then I end up restarting.

    I have opinions about deity but I'll start a separate thread for those :)
     
  3. RedRover57

    RedRover57 Emperor

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    The GL is nice but far from required for a science win. Now if you get beat to the HS-PT that is a different situation and probably worth a re-roll.

    On Deity I usually re-roll if (a) my starting site is particularly bad in terms of luxuries/resources or lack of rivers, etc., (b) I have no access to horses as Songhai/Mongolia or iron as Japan/Rome, etc., (c) I get dogpiled by 2-3 civs early and no chance to recover or (d) my map position is the opposite of what I need for the VC I am attempting. In other words I probably re-roll my Deity games >90% of the time. :lol:
     
  4. Buccaneer

    Buccaneer Deity

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    How about going ahead and play any one of those options on Immortal? Any level can be easy/easier if one stacks the decks in their favor.
     
  5. RedRover57

    RedRover57 Emperor

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    I don't re-roll on Immortal. As I mentioned earlier in this thread Immortal seems to be too easy most of the time regardless. There is such a huge discrepancy between Immortal and Deity that it is almost like 2 different games. For example, there is almost never an issue with surviving early AI rushes on Immortal (even multiple DoWs). They can't muster up the type of relentless attacks that they can on Deity (see what France did in Deity Challenge 4 to most people attempting that map for example - I have never seen anything like that on Immortal).
     
  6. Buccaneer

    Buccaneer Deity

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    My point was could you easily win, for example, as Mongols if no horses on Immortal?
     
  7. RedRover57

    RedRover57 Emperor

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    On Immortal the AI isn't quite as quick to DoW, so it would be pretty easy to buy horses from a civ that is further away if you don't have any nearby and not worry about losing them to a war declaration. Or you could ally a CS with horses. Then ideally the first civ you conquer would have more horses. You can easily get by with 4 keshiks and one horseman (to cap cities) to conquer your first civ if it is early enough (around turn 90ish). Then eventually build/buy a total of 12-14 keshiks and steamroll the whole map.
     
  8. Corvus corax

    Corvus corax Chieftain

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    @Chazzycat: Is winning on deity realistically confined to just a few top level civs and awesome starts?

    Certainly not! And I’m just an average player on king and emperor level. Last weekend I was trying to get the steam achievement for a deity win, and I first wanted to play some test games to get an impression of the difficulty level. To my big surprise I won. :D
    The set up of this first test game was: Gandhi, archipelago, tiny map, epic, low sea level, ruins on (forgot to put them off). All other settings default and random opponents.

    I started alone on a snaky island, very few luxuries and resources (only silver and spices, no iron, no horses). Soon AI ships (Suleiman, Hiawatha and Catherine) explored my coasts. In the early phase I could keep up rather well, although being last in score all the time. I stayed small (2 cities) and went liberty/piety/patronage. In the renaissance era Hiawatha became the runaway civ. But he seemed to like me. We stayed friends all game, and also Catherine and Suleiman wanted to declare friendship with me again and again. And so I did, again and again. Surprisingly I managed to build a few wonders: Great Library, Haga Sophia, Porcelain Tower, Ankor Wat and The Louvre. When I reached the industrial era, all the AI finished the Apollo Program. I was 17 techs behind Hiawatha, but also Catherine and Suleiman were far, far ahead in techs. My puny army consisted of a single rifleman, a single crossbowman, two cannons and a caravel. Seeing artilleries, battleships, mech infantry and tanks passing by my shores, I spent most of my time bootlicking and selling lux, merely to stay alive. I declined all request for joining war and luckily never got DOWed. :confused: Around 1912 AD Hiawatha built the UN. Three votes in a row stayed undecided, and 5 city states abstained every time. Like mad I started collecting money by selling everything I had: units, luxuries, buildings, resources. Until I had the money (6500 gold) to ally the 5 abstaining city states and make one city state change side. I won the 7th vote. I still can’t believe I won on deity with such a poorly developed civilization. The other civs had 3x (Catherine) 5x (Suleiman) and 11x (Hiawatha) my score of about 600 points!!

    Although it probably won’t happen very often, this game proves that even with an underdeveloped civ and a lousy starting position it is possible to win on deity! Main issue is not to quit a game too soon and grab the one chance you may get!

    BTW, my next deity game was on pangea and I got wiped off the map by the Arabs within 35 turns!:cry:
     
  9. lilnev

    lilnev King

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    My experience, a top-tier civ isn't important. A good set of tiles for the capital and second (and third?) city is a little bit important. Not getting DoWed before turn 30, or double-DoWed before turn 60, is extremely important. Having enough neighbors to trade with is completely essential (large fractal, I've learned to re-roll isolated or one-neighbor starts).

    Those are sort of minimal standards. Obviously a game will be easier with a strong civ, great tiles, and abundant but peaceful neighbors.
     
  10. qalsip1977

    qalsip1977 Wonder Lust

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    Try a deity game without settings cooking. Archipelago really takes the wind out of the deity sails since you're rarely close enough to them to get DoW unless you just do something intentionally to make the AI grumpy. Epic speed is also something changes the deity experience. Standard or quick are recommended unless you're just looking for an easier time. The AI don't adapt to the speed change very well. Also the AI, for whatever reason, do not explore as much on Archipelago as they do a more open map...so the ruins are usually left alone for the human player to find. This all makes a deity game really more like 2 difficulty levels lower...
     
  11. Kbo

    Kbo Chieftain

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    I'd agree, it's more about not getting bad luck than only playing with a few select civs. I wouldn't try facepalming with the Ottomans to get a first win, but theres definetly more than the top tier that can pull off solid wins as long as you play their strengths.
     
  12. Storminator

    Storminator Warlord

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    These strategies all seem to beeline Education. Are there other viable Deity strats? I'm not actually moving up to Deity yet; I haven't beat Immortal yet. I'm just wondering if there are other paths that work.

    PS
     
  13. ds61514

    ds61514 Warlord

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    Two other strategies:

    1) Chivalry Rush (Mongolia, Songhai, Siam, China)

    2) Massive-sword rush (Iriquois, Aztec)
     
  14. lilnev

    lilnev King

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    I often go to Steel before Education. It's hard to conquer much before longswords. And conquering is the best source of gold (peace settlements and selling cities), thus CSs and RAs.
     
  15. Karpyan

    Karpyan Chieftain

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    Yet to beat Deity on standard settings (not trying any others), but Mongol keshik rush or Babylon science turtle seem the best options, unless the RNG deals me a royal flush. Just acclimatising to early AI rushes and insane spamming right now. Big shift from Immortal and that took a month or so to handle. Played a prince game the other night, and not sure I can face dropping back down again.
     
  16. chando

    chando Chieftain

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    Have recently started playing Deity, got 3 wins already.
    Frist i tried babylon standard continents, had to reroll because i was geting Monty and Iourquis flanking me and DOW early. I even managed to kill monty once but going for the other would have been a pain and I wanted a peacefull game. In the reroll i got a nice peninsula with a few mountains and a citystate blocking my entrance to the rest of the continent, so i turtle up and went for a nice science victory, geting a few DoW but only got into trouble once a massive persia started pushing me when i was building the spaceship parts. keeped killing his units at range until the very end.

    The seccond one was with Isabella from spain, pangea, standard, domination, beelining Chivarly and taking out Rome and France and i think iourquis with Conquistadors, than Germanny backtabed me and i had no oil so i bulbed to Mechinfantry and used that and artys to deal with them. aftter that i had oil, and uranium, so i hit A-bombs in japan(ingluding nagasaki for history accuracy :) ) and take their uranium, than i have all the map uranium, just cleaned up small gandhi and massive USA in a couple turns. quite nice win.

    third one i was Egypt, started with the HGardens plan, then education. DoF with arabia and japan(who was north but didnt share borders), Demmark and Monty declared on me for about the whole game. I just wonder spam and build my own 3 than later 6 cities (got a nice spot to expand). Monty died eventually(he massivelly DOW everyone in sight) i took demark out when i got rifles. was planing on using artillery, but only used in his last city(nice spot with 3/4 whales, 3/4fish and hills for production, should have been his captial but i beleive he settled the other settler frist). From there since i had artillery i decided to take on the score leader russia. After that i was planing to get the eiffel tower but harun(my friend) got when i was 1 turn away, so i reloaded and DOW him :). After that backstab and i almost wiped him out the rest of the word was guarded to me. I could easilly got nukes and killed off japan, ottomans and elizabeth, but the science victory was right there and i had about 200 production in my captal (2 GE setled, the HS one and Liberty, I hard build both PT and ND with them) so i went for it. really early science(turn 230+/- i think), with most of the map controled. quite nice.

    So tips:
    The one thing that was substancial in all games was finding allies early on and paying for people (all people, not only ally) to DoW each other, so they lose their RA(while you keep yours) and lose units/waste resources/production on meaningless wars and take diplomacy hits with other civs. Find out who do you want to go to war with who and make them hate each other. Always find out who of those two will pay less to Declare war on the other. Don't denounce cause that civ will probably denounce you back and you get a diplo hit (unless everybody is already denouncing them, then join the party for a diplo bonus with the rest if that civ is not your friend/threat to you)

    Top civs don't seems needed, but a mediam civ would be apreciated, and I certally would not want to play as polinesia on deity pangea :) The starting place for the captal should be able to grow and have nice production (i would consider at least 3 hills for the early game, within 2 tiles tops so you can buy). Other than that everithing else is bonus, but not essensial.
    Mining resources are a nice, marble is only good if you can settle on it(to have a shot at GL or HG without researching mansory) otherwise is just ok for HS and nothing else. Not geting gangbanged before turn 50 seems essensial as well, but an early DOW is not all bad if you can defend well enought while stiking to your plan, it takes quite a toll on your opponent units and than you can couterattack than sometimes even with archer and horses.
    Anyway i'm not an expert by any means, just my couple cents ;)
     
  17. lilnev

    lilnev King

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    This is true, and key. Warmongers will often DoW a neighbor for trivial amounts of money.
     
  18. chando

    chando Chieftain

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    Oh yeah, I LOL'ed pretty hard when monty was at war with 3-4 civs, had only 3 cities and I got him to DOW Russia who was the score leader for about 1 Iron and 47 gold. :lol:

    Its fun to mess with the AI, but you have to have the right timming sometimes. I noticed i could make sulleiman declare on Cathy for a reasonable amount but didn't do it right away, a couple turns later she build some wonder and her score went up e he wans't willing to DOW on her anymore. I think the AI will usually declare for gold if they are about the same score as the other AI, but once the other AI has about 500+ on score they wont...

    Of course, than you can just make the bigscore AI declare on the lower score ones if you're not at war with them yourself. :)
     
  19. Corvus corax

    Corvus corax Chieftain

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    You're absolutely right here, but as stated in my post I wanted to play some some testgames to experience deity. Various settings to get various experiences. Was in fact just watching AI behaviour. Never expected a win in the first testgame and I even never tried seriously untill I saw the opportunity. Don't blame me for an unexpected lucky win!!
     

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