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[GS] Tired of trying! Can anyone at all win Diplomatic Victory Vote with AI voting against?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by KyivanRusCivPlease, Sep 4, 2019.

  1. KyivanRusCivPlease

    KyivanRusCivPlease Prince

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    After my last game, I find you have to be lucky to win Diplomatic Victory, which I think is a shame.
    I played as Tamar and hoped to win the first Diplomatic Victory Vote (and the game), but my 24 votes were overshadowed by opposition from five other civs.
    During the next World Congress session, after putting maximum emphasis on generating Favor, I won, although I was preparing to loose again. The thing is, this time the AI didn't put most of their votes into the Diplomatic Victory Vote, scattering them for other resolutions.

    I guess to confidently win the Diplomatic Victory Vote I should cast around 50 votes, which is impossible to earn.

    How do you cope with the opposition, except defeating it militarily?
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2019
  2. SephiBBZ

    SephiBBZ Chieftain

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    Tips:

    1/ You can save and restart until the AI change their votes, it happens many times :D

    2/ You stack your diplo marks, then if you are sure they gonna vote massively against you, you just vote with the minimum also against you, it will give you 1 diplo point for this and then you still have all your marks for the next.
     
  3. Ceydezed

    Ceydezed Chieftain

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    I played as Pericles (deity) a while ago, aiming for a quick diplo win. I won around turn 235, and if i remember correctly, i had only one diplo victory vote in the congress before it ended I had a LOT much more diplo points that all other leaders, combined. I won this vote relatively easily (something like 30 to 15). So yeah definitely possible - just try as much as possible to stack the diplo favour.
    With Pericles, a lot of CS, the CS wonder, the cards, you can easily get up to 50 diplo points a turn.
    But diplo victory vote shouldn't be the main way to earn diplo points. You need the wonders, a religion, a lot of disasters and emergencies. These are the way to go. And if you don't have enough diplo favour for the vote, as previous post said, you can vote against you and mitigate the impact of the vote.
     
  4. Karmah

    Karmah King Supporter

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    yes :)
     
  5. AntSou

    AntSou Prince

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    I prefer that the AI simulates a human player rather than attempting to simulate what would a world leader do. So the fact Civs are trying to undermine your Diplo victory is positive imo.

    That's not to say I like Diplomatic Victory. I don't. However, I think the solution to this problem might also be a simple one:

    - At the end of each 30 turn cycle, the Civ with the highest number of Suzerain status over City States gains 2 Diplo Points. Second place gets 1.
    - World Leader Elections have no negatives. You're forced to pick somebody. Winner is granted 2 Diplo Points.


    Better yet would be to be able to trade with Civs for votes. That's the best solution in principle, but obviously I have no hopes the AI can actually handle that properly, and it would result in the Human Player just abusing it.
     
  6. KyivanRusCivPlease

    KyivanRusCivPlease Prince

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    After thinking about it a bit, I think if there only were outcome A (positive outcome) for the Diplomatic Victory Resolution, it would be clear that a player with most accumulated Favor wins the vote, because everone would only vote for themselves. A better solution would be to allow a Spy to steal some Favor from the AI or to be able to minimize an AI civ's Favor per turn. A Spy's ability to know the number of a civ's votes cast against you in the Diplomatic Victory Vote wouldn't help overcome the opposition. And I don't really like the existing 1 DVP per guessed outcome of resolutions - it's not that fun...
     
  7. AntSou

    AntSou Prince

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    You're right. The AI would probably do that.

    I like your idea of using spies to steal Favor. That should probably be part of the outcome when you use a spy on a City-State.
    ---

    What do you think about each City State you're the suzerain of giving a free vote toward World Leader elections? Might that be enough?
     
  8. Chefofrats

    Chefofrats Warlord

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    I only managed to get a Diplomatic Victory once, and it was a horrible experience. I had been allied with almost every other Civ for thousands of years, and yet they all always voted against me in the Congress. I ended up hoarding a ridiculous amount of Diplomatic Favour points to brute-force myself to the diplomatic victory. I used spies to become suzerain of all City States, I liberated what cities I could from the few Civs I was not allied with - basicly I did everything possible to accumulate as many favour points as possible. I think i had 2500 DF before the ultimate session of the Congress. And still I managed to win the deciding vote by the skin of my teeth...

    Perpetual allies voting against you is just such a jarring incosistency with the victory type being called "diplomatic". There is nothing diplomatic about it.
     
    KyivanRusCivPlease likes this.
  9. KyivanRusCivPlease

    KyivanRusCivPlease Prince

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    Yeah, that's also a great idea of yours! It would even be better if each city-state gave 3 votes for you (on a small map with 9 city-states)! If you suzerained all 9, they would provide 27 votes, which combined with my 24 votes (taking into account the situation described in my first post) would be enough to confidently win.

    As for stealing Favor, a Spy should be stationed in a respective civ's city (from which you want to steal Favor), not a city-state.
     
  10. aguliondew

    aguliondew Prince

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    I feel that the only way to get a diplomatic victory is to be a warmonger and kill half of the civs so you can have an advantage. Buying diplomatic favor use to be a thing but one of the update changed how the AI values favors so the AI rarely sell them. I can get any other victory faster than a diplomatic victory. I got frustrated in one game because I lost 9 diplomatic point from votes. I ending up trying to get a culture /science victory. My rock bands got me a culture victory first and that civ was into focused on culture at all.
     
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  11. Rosty K

    Rosty K King

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    I try to get there before the Modern Era and the world leader vote. Though I play marathon, not sure it's possible on higher speeds (and higher difficulties, where AIs keep up with your era longer and thus eras change faster).

    And right, having a few initial civs eliminated (not necessarily by you) makes things easier.
     
  12. Icicle

    Icicle Prince

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    When I inevitably try for DV to fill out my hall of fame this is probably how I'm gonna do it. Mongol style diplomacy. One city left that isn't me. Oh look at all these votes I found under other people's palaces.
     
    KyivanRusCivPlease likes this.
  13. AntSou

    AntSou Prince

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    I find that to be a problem with most victory types.
     
  14. Dylan96B

    Dylan96B Chieftain

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    I'm not sure if you're taking advantage of the early diplomatic points, you can earn through wonders:
    • Mahomie Temple + 2
    • Potato Palace + 1
    • Statue of Liberty + 4
    Not to mention, every congress vote that you win, is a diplo victory point. If you can learn the AIs preferences for voting, you can earn 2 every session. As well as the Natural Disaster event, winner is awarded 2 victory points.

    Just some pointers that I've picked up along the way.
     
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  15. Ownsya

    Ownsya Warlord

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    This summary of how he won game of the month 67 with Diplomatic Victory has some pretty good tips/strategies for that victory type. Worth reading imo. In case anyone is interested in playing this gotm, I've placed his after action report in spoiler tags.

    Spoiler GOTM67 [USER=273710]@DanQuayle[/USER] 's After Action Report :

     
  16. KyivanRusCivPlease

    KyivanRusCivPlease Prince

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    Thanks, I know that, and I've built the three wonders and even Országház. To be honest, I had one Aid Request emergency but finished second due to my taking it lightly, anyway that doesn't solve the problem of the existing Diplomatic Victory Vote mechanic.
     
  17. KyivanRusCivPlease

    KyivanRusCivPlease Prince

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    Thanks, I am acquianted with this after action report. The thing is, he didn't even have to vote in the Diplomatic Victory Vote. But I wish we had a better chance of winning the Diplomatic Victory resolution.
     
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  18. WillowBrook

    WillowBrook Lurker

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    It seems to me that the diplo victory vote is more of a way to slow down and make things difficult for a player who didn't manage to win before the modern era. It's not a way to reliably get points for yourself - you have to do that by other means.

    I don't know how intentional my characterization is on the part of the designers, but that's how it plays currently.
     
  19. Beaver79

    Beaver79 Warlord

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    I just got my first and probably last diplo victory unless they totally revamp it. On a large or huge map it seems like you will have to have it pretty much wrapped up before the votes start where voting down someone for diplo victory begins.

    When world congress comes up in previous ages make sure you get the points for voting for the winner. I usually don't spend more than 1 point voting here, but in this game I put 4-5 in each and I seemed to win it each time. Do that, get the wonders listed above, and if there is a natural disaster event, make sure you win it. There are also 2 techs that will give you a point as well. Also if you are at 18 points going into the final vote, you can win by just hitting on the first two proposals.

    On a large map I had 8 civs still alive and despite being allied to the maximum number, suz of a ton of city states, and a last tier government, each AI will dump all of their points into making the leader lose 3 points. Dumping 4000 points into that last ability isn't enough to win it. You can vote with that, but then you are only breaking if you hit the other 3.

    They really should get rid of the -3 vote for and force everyone to vote for a +2. On a map larger than regular size it's practically impossible to win that vote unless you kill other civs off, but that isn't very diplomatic. It would also at least give the AI a chance to win it.
     
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  20. KyivanRusCivPlease

    KyivanRusCivPlease Prince

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    I already expressed my opinion regarding exluding the -3 vote above, but anyway in order to better see how our ideas would work we would have to try them out in-game.
    I don't know, in the current state of the game, maybe I should really try to not rely on the Diplomatic Victory Vote, and whenever it comes around, just work hard to get 0 DVP by guessing the first two and voting against myself in the third resolution. As @WillowBrook said, the Diplomatic Victory Vote is not a way to reliably get points for yourself, so I may even not need to build the Országház wonder, because you don't need much Favor to guess the first two resolutions throughout the game. And after the Modern Era, I could then rely on DVP from Scored Competitions (which I am glad Firaxis revamped in the last patch, adding 1 DVP to a winner) and the future civic and tech 1 DVP each. And taking into account the September update is about to drop on September 20, I still have time to play a game on a small map and do a 5 or 7 city challenge on Emperor.
     
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