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[GS] Tired of trying! Can anyone at all win Diplomatic Victory Vote with AI voting against?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by KyivanRusCivPlease, Sep 4, 2019.

  1. KyivanRusCivPlease

    KyivanRusCivPlease Prince

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    So I'm again fed up! I played a tall game as Hungary with 6 cities (Emperor, small map, Continents), and was disappointed that one time at about 15/20 DVP the number of opposition votes during the Diplomatic Victory Vote was around 10 (if I had known that, I would have voted FOR myself), but the other - 20 against my 17. I gave up the game exhausted and disappointed at 12/20 DVP or so in the World Information Era. The other issue is I failed to guess the combos of some resolutions and so my progress toward the Diplomatic Victory was too slow. Plus one DVP every 30 turns from Scored Competitions is too little to advance... @dshirk could you please make Diplomatic Victory more manageable (as the other victory conditions) in the next update? Thanks for listening to civ fans
     
  2. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Play as Sweden, get a lot of theaters but do not use the great people. Concentrate on spies to get rid of others suzerain and you will end up generating 40 Dip points per turn. Play continents and wipe out your continents civ’s before going to the other continent helps. Also playing the primordial map where there are lots of emergencies may be a solution also.
    Look at the latest GOTM. Play that after looking at the results if you just want a dip victory .
     
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  3. bbbt

    bbbt Emperor

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    Yeah I've found the key is basically controlling close to all the suzerainships if possible (and having Országház on top). You end up controlling the vast majority of diplo points. I also tend to just invest a lot in the early general votes - it let's you pick the winner (so you get the dvp) and you can choose a beneficial result. Doesn't always work, but usually 5-6 votes enough. Build the DVP wonders.

    Last time I won, I think I had essentially 18 DVP points without the DVP votes. I won two of them and got the -3 once, and then I think won with the DVP from the seasteds tech.
     
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  4. leandrombraz

    leandrombraz Emperor

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    Try not to see the vote for diplo points as a win condition, it's not how you win. The vote is for players who're behind, it's a catch up mechanic. If you failed miserably on winning points by other methods, then the vote is for you, if not, it's against you since you don't need to catch up. To compare with Mario Kart, the diplo vote is a blue shell, it's meant to hit whoever is first. Don't save favors to vote on it, don't even try to vote for yourself, just vote against from the get go. Your source of diplo points in the congress is winning the resolutions, so try to predict what the AI will vote on and if you can't, make good use of your favors, don't save it for later.

    • Don't make friendship with everyone. Each friend is one less Civ you can declare war on and you want to be able to do that in Military Aid Requests. You also want to be able to liberate CS, so get your 5 allies for favors and leave everyone else without a declaration;
    • I'm not sure exactly how this works so I might be wrong, other more knowledgeable players can enlighten us but I think there's a limit to how much emergencies can be up at the same time or something like that. If that is true, you should avoid pursing an aid emergency for yourself. It gives tons of gold but I think it stop or delay other emergencies from happening;
    • I'm not sure if this works but theoretically, you could use a spy to force an emergency by blowing up a dam. I didn't try it yet, I hope someone did and can tell us if that works. You should also play with disasters on 4, to increase the chance for an aid request.

    Edit: I still think the Congress should speed up as the game progresses, 30 turns is too much, things take too long to happen. It's even worse with Sweden in the game, those late game scored competitions take forever to come into play, by then you already won, if not by diplo by an unintended cultural victory. Eventually it should go down to 25, then 20.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
  5. KyivanRusCivPlease

    KyivanRusCivPlease Prince

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    Thanks for explaining and giving tips beautifully) I wonder if blowing up a dam really triggers an aid request. It would be great. It's a great idea to speed up the Congress in the late game.
    I think avoiding alliances is good for minimizing the AI's favor generation.
    But anyway it doesn't feel right to set the Disaster Intensity to 4 to just have a better chance to win by Diplomacy. In the current state of the Diplomatic Victory, you should win it by Modern Era, and if you don't, it will take forever and eventually you will just quit the game bored) So I'll be waiting for tweaks to this win condition, because I'm tired of building the same Wonders and working to become CS suzerain just to get stuck with DVPs in the World Modern Era 3 or 4 times in a row )
     
  6. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

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    I typically win a Diplo Victory in the Industrial, by building the aforementioned wonders and just voting with the AI in the WC. If one or two aid emergencies happen, I'm in like Flint.
     
  7. kaspergm

    kaspergm Deity

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    "Voting with the AI" in the WC is a pretty bold statement, when game gives you zero indication what the AI will vote. It's basically rolling a dice and hoping you hit whatever obscure choice the AI makes.
     
  8. steveg700

    steveg700 Deity

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    Not at all. The AI can be quite predictable if you study its patterns. For instance, if it voted for siege units to receive +5 combat strength, it probably will again.

    With the vote to gain or lose DP points, you can just vote against and then toss in a bunch votes against the runner-up.
     
  9. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

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    It's generally pretty predictable. They tend to vote the same way, or one of two ways each time. And if you don't know, then expend 5-7 votes to tip it in your favor.

    They always vote for city center discounts.

    They always either ban Great Writer points or Great Admiral unless Great Prophets are still up for grabs.

    Religion-oriented civs vote hard to give themselves more theological strength, so expend a few votes backing one to tip it in their favor.

    Trade civs like Cree and Phoenicia vote hard for extra trade routes, so drop a few votes in their favor. But I usually force that one for myself.

    Same with the district culture bombs.
     
  10. leandrombraz

    leandrombraz Emperor

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    Not necessarily, considering that the AI can do alliances between themselves. If you do a cultural alliance with Catherine, nobody else can do a cultural with her, so you're reducing the opportunities the AI have to do alliances between themselves. Each alliance you do eat an alliance slot that could be used by the AI. It's better to benefit from the alliance yourself than to leave it open for others. The only scenario where I would consider skipping alliances is if I was playing on a smaller map. I play on huge with 12 Civs, so I can do all 5 alliances and still have 6 Civs to declare war on at will. With less Civs it might be worth skipping an alliance or two just to increase the pool of Civs you can declare war on. Friendship is the only thing I avoid for sure, once I secured my alliances.
     
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  11. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    a hidden nasty with alliances is they speed up a CV. Mechanics getting in each other’s way, just seems easier to clear the board a bit.
    Destroy all science CS and only have a couple of unis. Last thing you want to happen is to be forced into computers.
    Less people, less science ... and you have religion = no other VC.
     
  12. KyivanRusCivPlease

    KyivanRusCivPlease Prince

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    Never thought about it, actually. Thanks for the idea! Did it work for you?
     
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  13. KyivanRusCivPlease

    KyivanRusCivPlease Prince

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    @steveg700 Well, if I could eg. cast 17 votes for myself and the AI civs throw 20 against myself, would it not be the same result if I voted with as many votes against another civ (still 17 votes against 20)? :)
     
  14. steveg700

    steveg700 Deity

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    I feel the searing pains of the Diplomatic Victory Dogpile.

    Thing is, it's got to be treated like two separate votes. A or B wins, then whatever votes goes from there.

    Terrible implementation devoid of merit. I could have enough diplo favor to have 15 votes, and I'll lose from a combination of most civ's getting 1 free vote, and maybe two civ's contribute 5 or 6 votes. So, even with a mountain of favor, I lose if I vote for myself. And the real kicker? The two guys who dumped those votes for me to lose DP votes are usually my ALLIES. These are guys I'm drowning in positive diplo modifierss with.

    To put it mildly, this is an egregious ludo-narrative disconnect of what being the most diplomatic civ should amount to. If you can't convince other civ's to vote for you and it's just every civ for themselves, wolf-packing the leader, what's the point of this being a step on the path to diplomatic victory? To just drag the victory condition out by blue-shelling? Yeah, blue shells are really respected in game design, aren't they? Dumb. Dumb. Dumb.

    In case there's any confusion on the matter, I don't like it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
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  15. steveg700

    steveg700 Deity

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    They usually don't all vote for the leader. Nor do they have to. They just have to vote to all vote B, and that's enough to toss my 17 A votes to the wayside. Then whoever got the most negative votes takes the dive. That's a vote I have always been able to buy the pot.

    And to be clear regarding my previous posts, it is usually my allies who are doing the lion's share of the voting for me lose points.
     
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  16. KyivanRusCivPlease

    KyivanRusCivPlease Prince

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    What I observed is they always vote against the leader... "That's a vote I have always been able to buy the pot." - you mean you always win that vote with the B outcome for another civ?
     
  17. Brutus2

    Brutus2 Prince

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    I tend to play on small or standard maps and usually have alliances with every other civ which results in me being left out of military aid emergencies and even when I have disaster turned up it seems there are plenty of aid emergencies for me (which I decline because that only gives the other civs points) but very rarely do I get a chance to send aid to others. Kind of ironic that having alliances with all other civs is BAD for a diplomatic victory. Also the fact that eliminating other civs increases your chances to win the diplomatic vote. I think Diplomatic victory is bad because it really doesn't have much to do with being diplomatic and friendly. I wish alliance points contributed to the victory in some way so you are rewarded for reaching high tier alliances.
     
  18. criZp

    criZp Emperor

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    so it's a very bad system, that's what I get from your post.
     
  19. KyivanRusCivPlease

    KyivanRusCivPlease Prince

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    So, I couldn't resist the temptation to play a new game with the September 2019 Update and try out Diplomatic Victory again, even though I had to build the same wonders for 7 DVP + the Országház.
    I played on Prince, Continents and Islands, small map. And this time (at last!) I won at turn 330 or so with no help of Aid Requests. I lost 3 Diplomatic Victory votes (but lost no DVPs due to guessing the combos). I finished and won only one Scored Competition (there hasn't been three because I guess I was in the Modern World Era during the 3 Diplomatic Victory votes and maybe because I had an Aid Request Emergency I won only the next turn after winning the game...) - World's Fair for 1 DVP.
    I was able to trade some Favor untill later in the game, so that didn't change much in my strategy.

    Conclusion: the game was quite ok, but somehow it is boring to build those same three (or two for 5 DVP, if you have not found religion) wonders for 7 DVP. That's why I suggest Scored Competitions give 2 DVPs and happen every World Congress session along with the Diplomatic Victory Vote.

    By the way, I've noticed that the AI has called the Request Aid Emergency upon losing 2 pop, whereas this Emergency was not triggered at 1 pop loss. I also tried breaching Dams multiple times, but it never triggered a Request Aid Emergency. I also wish a flood caused by a successful Breach Dam mission showed in the Climate Screen to be able to view its effects.
     
  20. Beaver79

    Beaver79 Warlord

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    Try playing primordial. There will be volcanoes everywhere and I seem to get a lot more aid emergencies.

    Also in my small sample size of games since playing the patch, the AI always votes for a winner now instead of always loading all of their points into against someone. It's much much easier to win diplo victory that way but still just as boring. The thing is you can almost always win either a science or culture victory before you can get enough diplo points, so you have to intentionally drag out the end game to get it.
     

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