TJ01: Famous Five

[Northern Pike]

Space, by all means wait for the Great Lighthouse. With our coastal cities where they are it takes forever to get our galleys into position to discover anything useful, so we shouldn't take risks with them.

 

[a space oddity]

turnlog TJ01 - 350BC

goals:
Find new neighbours.
Move troops east.
Try to trim Germany a bit and get some Elite wins in.

preturn:
Looking good
Move Elite Horseman in First Attempt south to German settler trio.

IT:
The German warrior from the trio move into our lands.

330BC - turn 1:
Move troops to Cologne, I want to de-link the German cities.
Hmm, I can't force the Germans to declare if they don't leave.
Fifth Wheel will complete the Palace in 9 turns and will be too quick for Monarchy to arrive, I'll need to MM production down.

IT:
The German Warrior leaves.
The German settler pair moves to the Gems.
First Attempt Horseman -> Horseman

310BC - turn 2:
Sell WM to Germany for WM+4g, Spain is broke.
Move Horses around to prevent the German settler to ruin our colony.

IT:
The settler pair is on it's way to the river.

290BC - turn 3:
Move the troops in such a way that we'll 3 Vet and 1 Elite Horse to destroy the new German city and 3 Vet Horse to take on Cologne, more troops are on their way. Next turn will see WAR.

IT:
First Attempt Horseman -> Horseman
Fourth Horseman Horseman -> Harbor
The people offer us nice pathways to our Palace.

270BC - turn 4:
Secons Minute is about to riot. Moving up the lux slider is more expensive than a taxman. It'll mean 2

turns more on the Great Library though, tough choice, but the Hanging gardens will make the difference soon.
I really would like to use the Elite forces so I'll wait one more turn before attacking. There is a Galley in German territory too, it'll have to move first.
Spain has Math, she'll give it up for Poly, hmmm. Since Monarchy is only 6 turns away, I make the deal.

IT:
Three Cows completes the Great Lighthouse -> Harvor
The German settler keeps moving, because of the jungle I can't catch up.

250BC - turn 5:
Now what is that Spanish Archer doing next to our Warrior defended colony?
We have a nice stack near Germany now, patience pays off.
Spain has sold Poly to Germany, but not Math.
Sell WM for WM+3g each to Germany and Spain.

 

[a space oddity]

IT:
The German settler keeps moving, aha, I get it now, the Germans want the Iron too.
The Spanish Archer is just scouting.
First Attempt Horseman -> Catapult

230BC - turn 6:
The workers start roading out.
Sell WM for WM+2g each to Germany and Spain.
I think we can now shave of a turn from Monarchy and the Hanging Gardens, now due in 3 and 4 turns respectively.

IT:
Germany has an Archer nearish Fourth Horseman, move two Horseman there for offensive defence.

210BC - turn 7:
Sequence is important here, the Plan: 1. move boats, 2. sell WMs, 3. declare Germany
Sell WM for WM+1g each to Germany and Spain.
Declare war on Germany.
4/4 Horse vs 3/3 Spear (on settler) - wins losing 1 hp.
Capture worker near Cologne.
There are 6 units near Cologne, 3 near Nuremberg.

IT:
German Archer moves away!
FA Catapult -> Horseman

190BC - turn 8:
Move slider back for Monarchy in 1 @ -17gpt and 19g in the coffer.
Battle for Nuremberg:
4/4 Horse vs 3/3 Spear - retreats leaving no marks
4/4 Horse vs 3/3 Spear - retreats too
4/4 Horse vs 2/3 Spear - Nuremberg is autorazed, Horse promotes to Elite!

Battle for Cologne:
4/4 Horse vs 3/3 Spear - Horse is killed
5/5 Horse vs 2/3 Spear - Cologne is autorazed, Horse has 2/5 left.

IT:
Germany moves a galley near Three Cows, and a pair of Archer/Settler near the Horses defending FH.
Monarchy comes in, start Currency
Three Cows Harbor -> Rax
Fourth Horseman Harbor -> Galley

170BC - turn 9:
Change production of Fifth Wheel from Palace to Hanging Gardens, due in 1, no shield loss.
A stray German Warrior threathens the workers connecting the Silk colony:
5/5 Horse vs 3/3 Warrior - wins, 2/5 left.
Move the slider to (6.3.1) for Currency in 18 @ +1gpt, 3g in the bank.
We will revolt after the HG comes in.

Battle for Frankfurt:
4/4 Horse vs 3/3 Spear - Wins, promotes, 2/5 left.
4/4 Horse vs 3/3 Spear - wins, promotes, 4/5 left.
Frankfurt is manually razed.

Settler pair in mountains:
4/4 Horse vs 3/3 Archer - retreats.
4/4 Horse vs 2/3 Archer - is killed, promoting the Archer.

Move Ted from Second minute, to help defend *if* Germany lands troops, so the Gallic will hopefully not be needed. The taxman is temp changed into an entertainer.

IT:
FA Horseman -> Horseman
No troops emerge from the German Galley.

150BC - turn 10:
Start a Palace prebuild in Fourth Horseman, it will lag easily and will have to be carefully monitored.
The entertainer in SM is fired so the Great Library is now due in 4 turns.

I'll leave the revolution to the next player, we are religious, so no problems there.

The current culture situation:

--------------> the save

 

[TedJackson]

Looking set for a nice little war there Space

The balls rolls gently across the field and comes to rest at the feet of Karasu. You're up.


Ted

 

[Northern Pike]

Nice , Space.

We haven't invested much time in Currency yet, so should we perhaps switch to Construction? I would say that the Great Wall and Fourth Horseman's aqueduct, taken together, probably outweigh marketplaces at the moment. The Great Wall looks very important now that we've been beaten to the Pyramids. I don't think we can succeed if we lose six of our 12 cpt of leeway in the Ancient Age alone.

 

[a space oddity]

I dunno, NP, we are very poor atm, also due to too many units I guess. I agree Construction is important too.

 

[Yndy]

Can I make another comment, please?

Space, you know that Poly is one of the techs the AI doesn’t care much for. It would have been in our advantage never to trade it because the AI would have lagged in the Ancient Age for long without researching it. The gain we made towards math was limited and we could have afforded even to research it ourselves.

I also agree with NP’s point on Aqueduct in Fourth Horseman. I’d keep building horses/galleys there and prebuild the aqueduct at the right time.

 

[a space oddity]

Originally posted by Yndy
Can I make another comment, please?

Go ahead, all comments are welcome.

I know I have a tendency to trade too much (played too many games on warlord level I guess), but in this case I'm pretty sure the other two will never be in a position to really threaten us. And it doesn't look like easy contact (ie without suicide galleys) can be made with the other AI. So they will not be trading on a very short notice.

 

[Karasu]

Got it.
I will probably play it tomorrow -now I've got to rush into a meeting...

 

[Karasu]

Sorry for the rushed post. It's that I *am* a bit rushed right now...

Pre-turn
Everything ok. Let's start.


Turn 1 - 130 BC
Three Cows: Barracks - Catapult
Most horsemen are recovering. Move a few of them, cautiously explore with the Galleys. Nothing to report.


Turn 2 - 110 BC
First: Horseman - Wealth. It feels odd, but we can't afford any more units right now.

Elite Horseman attacks German Archer-Settler pair. Horse is redlined, Archer not even a scratch.
Second Elite Horse attacks. Looses two hps, kills Archer.

Galley movements reveal nothing.


Turn 3 - 90 BC
Three Cows: Catapult - Galley (I'll send one on suicide mission)
Fifth: Horseman - Wealth never done this in the BCs...

Elite horseman attacks wandering German warrior. Looses 3 hps but wins.

The German Galley landed a Settler-Spearmain pair in the jungle between Second and Santiago. I'll move a few horsemen in the area.


Turn 6 - 70 BC
Second: Great Library - Horseman

Two attacks, horseman vs warrior at the doors of Fourth. Two victories, one promotion to Elite.

We need to bring some irrigation to Fourth.


IT - Germany managed to build some horses. We are attacked by two, who kill our units.


Turn 7 - 50 BC
The two German horsemen are disposed of.
Oh, I almost didn't notice. Our Galley survived one turn in open seas. But it will have to face another one.


IT - Two more German Horsemen kill two Celtic ones. This is not funny. I will retreat and proceed accompanied by a couple defensive units.


Turn 8 - 30 BC
Three Cows: Galley - Horseman
The cities on Wealth are set to Spearman.

One Horseman is sent to disconnect Germany's horses.

This is almost unbeliavable. The Galley is still floating... But I picked the wrong sea. It's endless!

The second Galley takes advantage of a tongue of Sea waters and plunges into the ocean. Land is spotted, just out of reach... I can bet this one is not going to survive one turn...


IT - Quod Erat Demonstrandum. We know where someone is, at least. And the first Galley is still alive.
A Spanish Swordsman - Settler combo appears. Where did they get the Iron?


Turn 9 - 10 BC
Vet Horseman kills German Archer. Promoted.
Galley safely reaches a light blue spot. Wow...


Turn 10 - 10 AD
First: Horseman - Wealth
Second: Horseman - Horseman
Fifth: Spearman - Horseman

I've been regrouping the units in the vicinity of Heidelburg.
There does not appear to be any road between Hamburg and Berlin, so that those Horsies were probably all they had to throw at us. A couple of Spearman are on their way, though, to avoid loosing other Horses.

I haven't headed against any German city yet, as I was waiting for their units to come. There have been a few Elite wins, but no leader.

The good news is we will have contact with a green civ next turn, and another border appears within reach.


The New World(s)

 

[TedJackson]

New lands to explore

The sun streams through the open window throwing Yndy into sharp relief. You're up.


Ted

 

[Yndy]

Instead of building Wealth I suggest we build units and disband them. To take First Attempt as an example, its 17spt production brings 2gpt when on wealth. But it could also build a horse every 2 turns. That horse could be disbanded for 7 shields, so we get a production of 3.5spt which can be transferred to another city. Even if we could use the money to rush we couldn't have managed to rush 3,5 shields with 2 gold. On the other hand I suggest, and will implement, the disbanding of regular warrior units (bye-bye Mr. Jones, Bye Crow and Baxter, my dear friends).

You seem to neglect the calculator I attached , but I will update it anyway.
First Attempt: Predicted 20K ->2600 (turn 1090)
Second Minute: Predicted 20K ->2551 (turn 1041)
Three Cows: Predicted 20K ->2616 (turn 1106)
Fourth Horseman: Predicted 20K ->3605 (turn 2095) <- we've got to work hard on this one!
Fifth Wheel: Predicted 20K ->2747 (turn 1237)
We also have four spots in the top 5 cities with Paris on four.

Change First Attempt to Horseman, Fourth Horseman to Courthouse due in one. Also MM Fourth Horseman to get 2 more coins per turn instead of production. Also increase sci rate to 40%; Currency due in 6 with -6 gpt.
Contact Persia and give them our Territory Map and Mathematics for their World Map and 10gold. We clearly see the city of Liverpool but Persia does not have contact with England.

30AD: Three Cows: Horse-> Courthouse (Marketplace pre-build); Fourth Horseman: Courthouse -> Granary (Marketplace pre-build). Corw and Baxter are disbanded in Three Cows.
Elite horseman kills reg spear and razes Hannover. Persia just got Writing. That's why they didn't want to pay anything for it last turn. Since we can discover Currency in 5 turns I change everytown on Courthouse except First Attempt.

50AD: Our horse deep in the German lines resist to a horseman attack but is killed by an archer. One galley sets sail in a dangerous journey.

70AD: Galley survives and travels even further but we seem to be out of luck in that direction. Ted gets older and dies in his home town of Second Minute

90AD: Unbelieveably the galley survives but still there's nothing to be found. Western Hope sails slowly towards the English settlement.

110AD: Do we have Navigation already? The lucky sail is christened Nerthern Gambler. It still finds nothing. Horseman attacks Leipzig and wounds a Spear before retreating. Second horseman dies while wounding the second Spear. Elite Horseman kills spear. Elite Horsemand dies to redlined spear and last Elite horseman kills the last spear leaving Leipzig defended by a wounded Archer.

IT: Yet another german horse attacks our elite horse but dies creating a leader on our side.

130AD: Currency discovered, now heading towards Construction. Northern Gambler refuses to die... and finds what seems like a deserted island. Western Hope meets England but also Russia. Russia gives us contact with France and 115 gold for our World map. Russia also has both Philosophy and Contstruction but lacks Polytheism and Currency. England and France both have Construction and lack the same techs. Suddenly I find out that we're still a Despotic Government but this must wait. I decide not to give any technology to Russia et Co. but give Russia contact with Persia (it was a matter of turns) and 92 gold for Philosophy. France gets contact with Persia, Philosophy and the World map for Construction and 105 gold. England pays us 82 gold and World Map for our World Map. I get another 20 gold from re-selling the map. Lacking trade opportunities, I gift England Contact with Persia and Persia the updated World map. The Carthaginians are now the only civ we have not met but we know exactly where they are. England is constructing the Great Wall.

Veteran Horseman dies to fortified archer but Vercingetorix Dani saves the day again and captures Leipzig. I abandon it immediately. All buildings changed to Marketplaces. Mr. Jones dies as well.

First Attempt now at size 12 hires a taxman. He had no influence over the timing of the Marketplace anyway. Second Minute and Three Cows grow to size 11. Fifth Wheel changes to Great Wall.

WE're revolting toward Monarchy.

IT: Another German horse attacks us (and dies) and we see that Germany has connected the horse city again.

150AD: We're a Monarchy. Fourth Horseman changed to Aqueduct. Research Feudalism at 90% due in 9 turns with -37 per turn.

IT: Our wounded Spear resists the archer attack and gets promoted to elite.

170AD: Vercingetorix builds Army and goes back towards the battlefield. Spot a horse in German territory, attack it and get another elite horse.

190AD: First Attempt: Marketplace -> Colloseum; Second Minute: Marketplace -> Colloseum. Initially thought of it as a placeholder but than realise we really need it. Change Three Cows to Colloseum from Marketplace.

210AD: German connection to horses cut. Feudalism due in 6 turns with -40 gpt.

Click for the save

Edit: Spelling, it's always spelling...

 

[TedJackson]

Well played Yndy

Looks like our little empire is starting to gather some momentum now.

I dip my hand in the hat and pull out Northern Pike's token. You're up.

Ted

p.s. I'm not ignoring your spreadsheet Yndy. I'm updating both to crosscheck the results.

 

[mad-bax]

I was a little worried when we lost the pyramids, but now I think we have a reasonable chance of pulling this off. The choice of army for the leader was exactly right IMO. Get the Heroic Epic built ASAP. I am pretty sure now that we will spend the whole game at war.

 

[Karasu]

Yndy -very good point about building units and disbanding them. I knew I was doing something wrong there.

And good move disbanding the warriors. I was in doubt between retiring them and upgrading, and in the end did neither.

Incredible how lucky we got with 'suicide' Galleys...

 

[Yndy]

I’m playing all these games in such a rush that I don’t have the time to put my thoughts on the paper (screen actually).

I’d like to add that the Army is heading towards the frontline. I suggest we add one horse to it and get an easy victory so that we can initiate The Heroic Epic. Remember this is the only army that we can have.

We should not trade the Ancient Age techs to the guys overseas in order to slow it down. I chose Feudalism so that we can initiate more pre-builds at a time but then I think we should go towards the top branch and not even research engineering (I’m not sure about this though, any cons?). We should wait to see what is the free-tech of Russia and Persia. Thinking again, we could also make peace with Germany just after researching Feudalism and gift her all the AA tech so that they pull a Medieval age tech that we may use (trade for).

We need to focus on several cultural buildings these turns, Colloseums and possibly Cathedrals in all cities as soon as possible. Also join workers into Fourth Horseman as soon as the Aqueducts is built. Thinking of that, I should have researched Monotheism instead but maybe Germany will pull it for free.

 

[mad-bax]

I really have a very strong view about research. It needs to be really sloooow. I would not sell/gift any techs to the AI in the middle ages. Too many wonders too close together. Heroic Epic is vital, not for the culture so much as for leader generation.

When the army is obsolete we could disband it I think. Never done that b4 so I'm not sure.

 

[Karasu]

I agree with MB. We shoudl immediately start some war between the other AIs.

 

[Hmmmmm]

Dispanding armies can be a good move for rushing catherdrals and things as they create 100 sheilds.

 

[TedJackson]

Wars - good
Gifts - bad

Shouldn't that be the other way round?

Hmmmmm - thanks for the tip


Ted