TNT Reunion
- Thread starter Vind2
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lost_civantares
[Insert Title]
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- Aug 30, 2005
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It's interesting to read this forum again after reading MIA's rather scathing reviews of TNT's playing skills. 
greekguy
Missed the Boat
BCLG100 said:which to be fair was largly true
possibly, but i feel they assumed we all played and thought like Provo (who was over-agressive and could lose his cool). not to mention that most of their ridicule of us was based on us mining 1 or 2 hills in despotism. judging us based on that did and will always be the one thing that annoyed me to no end.
i think TNT's chances of winning were all but eliminated when Provo refused to be reasonable and make peace with D'Nuts. if we could've made peace before Carpetbomb was razed, we could've made it a little further and made it more competitive. but i guess it's just hindsight 20/20.
donsig
Low level intermediary
Well, we could have made peace before Carpetbomb was razed. Provo had become inactive long before that. When I was turn player I never had much heart in the war but did continue to role play in Provo's aggressive style. Also, whenever I wanted to make peace my teammates didn't. Ironically after Carpetbomb was razed I wanted to fight the Doughnuts but my team wanted peace.
The really good thing about this is that now we can look back and see just who mined those darn hills!
EDIT: OK, the screenie for turn 50 actually shows out worker on the hill north of Carpetbomb. Is he roading or mining? I can't tell. Turn 50 was the first turn I played.Was it me who mined the hill or Provo? And more importantly, just why is it so bad to mine a hill in despotism?
The really good thing about this is that now we can look back and see just who mined those darn hills!
EDIT: OK, the screenie for turn 50 actually shows out worker on the hill north of Carpetbomb. Is he roading or mining? I can't tell. Turn 50 was the first turn I played.Was it me who mined the hill or Provo? And more importantly, just why is it so bad to mine a hill in despotism?
because depotism limits the amount of shields you can actually make, therfore it is wasted turns the worker could have been doing something else.TimBentley
Deity
The worker was already mining in turn 50 and was done by turn 53, so Provo must have started the mine.
Mining a plain (although I would think irrigation would be preferred) would have accomplished just as much in less time.
Unfortunately I was without internet access when our nation met its demise.
Mining a plain (although I would think irrigation would be preferred) would have accomplished just as much in less time.
Unfortunately I was without internet access when our nation met its demise.
Robi D
Minister of (Dis)Order
greekguy said:
Or wait for it.... you could have not attacked us in the first place. Lets face it killed both our games plain and simple.
That said it was fun reliving the good old day when war actually required tactics and planning, none of this unlimited rail movement crap
It was fun reading through all the verbal battle me and dinsog err donsig had.Also personally i though the hill mining wasn't as bad as the road through the jungle, i mean come on how obvious can you make it what your direction of attack would be. Gave me plenty of turns to set the defenses up around the road and send out a force around your blind side. Sure you were unlucky with the RNG too, almost felt sorry for you but from our point of view you kind if deserved it
General_W
Councilor & Merlot Noble
Sorry about that!greekguy said:
But you've got to realize, at least from MIA's perspective, at that stage of the game, that's the only information we had about the internal workings of TNT.
That and the screenshot we got of your capital from KISS which also had some ugly MMing. (Which, in all honesty, is closer to how I played Civ3 before my massive education at the feet of the Master MMer Chamnix)
It wasn't personal! We were all really excited to have you join MIA, and appreciated your contributions while you were with us. (Though our plans were pretty much fully in motion by that time)
greekguy
Missed the Boat
Robi D said:Or wait for it.... you could have not attacked us in the first place. Lets face it killed both our games plain and simple.
That said it was fun reliving the good old day when war actually required tactics and planning, none of this unlimited rail movement crap
Also personally i though the hill mining wasn't as bad as the road through the jungle, i mean come on how obvious can you make it what your direction of attack would be. Gave me plenty of turns to set the defenses up around the road and send out a force around your blind side. Sure you were unlucky with the RNG too, almost felt sorry for you but from our point of view you kind if deserved it
we saw a worker and an empty city, which we assumed was your only other city besides Springfield (and i think Shelbyville), so it looked like a sure thing to us. i guess looking back the jungle road wasn't the best idea we had, but it did get our units quicker to the front, something we needed since our Immortals had a speed disadvantage to your MWs.
@General_W: it's not a big deal, but it just annoyed me that everyone thought we were bad players because of one hill mining. besides, of all the things you said about TNT in your "TNT Diplo" threads, saying we suck cause of hill mining was one of the nicest things you guys said about us.
it's ok though. we (mostly me) had some choice words for you about your "honor". 
Robi D
Minister of (Dis)Order
greekguy said:
That might have been the case, but you couldn't seriously expect one warrior to kill us off. That early in the the game massive unit production is difficult and to do it you need to sacrifice everything else. Plus we knew from what we had explored it was a long trip to make to attack each other, as you can see war started around turn 38 but the first real battle wasn't for another 25 turns. The reason we left the worker there and city empty was because we didn't think you would be that irrational to declare war that early in the game.
Everyone can see how far behind we were by the end of it.
donsig
Low level intermediary
I don't think we expected one warrior to kill you off. I doubted our ability to destroy the Iroqi throughout the whole war. I never thought the war would be the long drawn out affair it turned out to be. When I was the turn player my goal was to secure the luxuries and the road was important for that. I also thought the war would keep the Doughnut team busy making war units which would hinder their growth. I was trying to position TNT to be dominate on our continent down the road. We did have bad luck and that meant we couldn't keep the pressure on until we wanted peace. Then we were caught off guard and lost Carpetbomb. I thought the burning of that city was unnecessary and that really took the wind out of my sails as far as enthusthiasm for the game. The Nutters had us by the you know what and instead of turning the tables on our haughty demands they just burned the city. I for one wasn't willing to work with them after that until the blasted Galls make their sneak attack. They could have earned our respect and gratitute by just making us pay dearly (tribute) for our sin of taking the worker but they decided to burn the city and then make peace! 
Robi D
Minister of (Dis)Order
donsig said:I don't think we expected one warrior to kill you off. I doubted our ability to destroy the Iroqi throughout the whole war. I never thought the war would be the long drawn out affair it turned out to be. When I was the turn player my goal was to secure the luxuries and the road was important for that. I also thought the war would keep the Doughnut team busy making war units which would hinder their growth. I was trying to position TNT to be dominate on our continent down the road. We did have bad luck and that meant we couldn't keep the pressure on until we wanted peace. Then we were caught off guard and lost Carpetbomb. I thought the burning of that city was unnecessary and that really took the wind out of my sails as far as enthusthiasm for the game. The Nutters had us by the you know what and instead of turning the tables on our haughty demands they just burned the city. I for one wasn't willing to work with them after that until the blasted Galls make their sneak attack. They could have earned our respect and gratitute by just making us pay dearly (tribute) for our sin of taking the worker but they decided to burn the city and then make peace!
Tribute was not enough really at that point. The worker was a minor point, the sudden invasion had left a very bitter taste (don't forget we were discussing tech trades right up to your attack) but the worst were those over the top demands for peace. Even worse these damands did not change even in the face of a losing war. You had just lost your entire attack force in 2 turns and still you demanded we capitulate to you
In the end Carpetbomb was our answer to the BS we had to put up with for 60 odd turns. Also with peace on the horizon, it didn't hurt our cause to give you a major set back right at the begining of it
classical_hero
In whom I trust
Why did you guys stop building the Statue of Zeus and started on the Mausoleum of Mausollos? This wonder that you built was basically worthless in a PBEM game and this cause grea confusion about why it was being built at the time of it being built. Perhaps had you built the Statue of Zues instead, then thing would have been alot different for you guys.
greekguy
Missed the Boat
here's the reasoning behind building the MoM instead of the SoZ (donsig posted this back in December):
donsig said:
donsig
Low level intermediary
Robi D said:Tribute was not enough really at that point. The worker was a minor point, the sudden invasion had left a very bitter taste (don't forget we were discussing tech trades right up to your attack) but the worst were those over the top demands for peace. Even worse these damands did not change even in the face of a losing war. You had just lost your entire attack force in 2 turns and still you demanded we capitulate to you
In the end Carpetbomb was our answer to the BS we had to put up with for 60 odd turns. Also with peace on the horizon, it didn't hurt our cause to give you a major set back right at the begining of it
My point is that you could have repaid our BS with some BS of your own. It's too bad you guys couldn't separate the role playing from the game. If you could have we might have made peace long before the turn on which Carpetbomb was burned.
Robi D
Minister of (Dis)Order
donsig said:
We made several generous offers for peace during the entire conflict. All were rejected. Your demends for all tech and all gold every 20 turns remained unchanged until just before the end. The fact is had MIA not gifted you to the MA we would have kept going with the war.
donsig
Low level intermediary
Robi D said:
When the heck did we demand all techs and all gold every 20 turns? Feel free to browse through our threads to find those demands. I know there was a time before Carpetbomb was razed when we would have happily accepty a puny 1gpt. We also tried offereng a peace deal with a tech trade - a trade you guys would have gotten the better of. We just wanted 1gpt as part of that deal so we could say you were paying us tribute. (What can I say? MIA was into honor we were into BS!) Also, you guys could have kept Carpetbomb and ransomed it back to us but apparently that never entered your bloodthirsty minds.
