To all the Civ veterans who complain about Civ 5

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by pennjersey83, Oct 5, 2010.

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  1. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    Civilization is not only a game. It is an idea. It is a landmark - all the other strategy games align to this Game. Dumbing down this particular game narrows the whole genre.

    But it is not surprise - the whole world goes pop and mercantilism :)

    I am and will continue playing Civ4. Civ5 is not a bad game at all either - I tried it - it's ok, and will learn it as I dont deny things that I never tried to understand and like. But it is "so console", its just an apostasy from the idea and betrayal from us, the loyal players that stick with the game through 1-2-3-4.
     
  2. Generals3

    Generals3 Warlord

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    I don't mind if Firaxis wants to appeal the console generation , just don't touch my PC game . Keep it as a different series . You know, make a Civ Rev II for people like you and a Civ V for people like me . Sure it takes more time to make two series but if you can truly expand your market doing so instead of shifting market why not.

    But hey , i should get used to it , i survived the Rape of the C&C series so surely i can survive a "console-isation" of Civ , right?
     
  3. pennjersey83

    pennjersey83 Chieftain

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    The best thing about Civ 5, in my opinion, is that it is a streamlined, less complex version of a Civ game while still being 4x as complex as civ rev. I still believe there is a high level of strategy involved in Civ 5 and an expert will be able to dominate me in most games
     
  4. pennjersey83

    pennjersey83 Chieftain

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    I don't know if a civ rev 2 is a good idea seeing as how little sales it received compared to other games on xbox. But I do think making civ rev was a brilliant marketing idea that added many newcomers to the civ 5 game
     
  5. soltari666

    soltari666 Chieftain

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    I don't disagree with the "make it more mainstream is a good thing" sentiment.
    At the same time "mainstream" and "challenging" are not exclusive of each other.

    For example Starcraft: It is certainly not rocket science to play and win. the rules are simple, a 10 year old kid or a 70 year old grandpa get it and can win. but there are differences between the 24/7 hardcore nerd and joe sixpack chilling after a long days work. in multiplayer even more so, but also in single player mode.
    the same with world of warcraft: bringing hardcore and casual interests together will grant you cash cow.

    this difference is lacking in Civ5. there are less amazing "tricks" to pull off, it has less options and the AI, if not fed with crazy production boni, just crumbles without giving you a sense of accomplishment.

    Some veterans feel that the balance in Civ5 is heavily tilted toward the casual calling it dumbed down or made for Wii kiddies.
     
  6. xenobrain

    xenobrain Chieftain

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    Game budgets have gotten out of control in the last few years. There is no good reason Civ V had to be as expensive as it was.

    Great games with great production values can be still be made with small fifteen man or less teams for under $2 million. Fact.

    The net profit wouldn't have been as high, which makes executives unhappy, but a smaller game can produce a much higher net margin.

    I think the gaming world would be a better place if for money spent we had 10 $2M games instead of one $20M game.
     
  7. mike_cf

    mike_cf Chieftain

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    I can bet that the majority of the developing budget went to 3d scenes and deco art. Exactly the 'features' veterans care less about.
     
  8. AdamMorva

    AdamMorva Chieftain

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    Mate, I don't blame them for making the game newbie or kid friendly. I blame them for not making it IQ90+ friendly. Let the kids and newbies play and have fun on lower difficulty levels, but give the veterans some bang for their bucks. It could have been done with adding new features with higher difficulty levels or simply with a mod.

    I doubt that you will find Civ5 fun to play in a few short weeks time.

    I don't have the statistics, but Civ5 criticism has been vocal enough so far to hurt future Civ series sales badly. By the way, every single friend of mine who played the previous games hates Civ5.
     
  9. grayggr

    grayggr Chieftain

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    Although I am slowly but surely beginning to like Civ5 it still is no patch (no pun intended) on Civ4

    I would advise the OP that if he loves both Civ Rev and Civ 5 then he should buy Civ 4, cheaper in price than ever before, and it will blow his mind.
     
  10. MasterDinadan

    MasterDinadan Warlord

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    For what it's worth, I played Civ 4 and Civ Rev extensively, And Civ 5 is my favorite of the three.
     
  11. magnusmarcus

    magnusmarcus Prince

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    People are still playing civ 5. wow. I bought a new system for civ5 just like I did for civ4 and I cant measure how dissapointing civ5 has been for me. On the up side Civ4 rocks on my new pc... I'll just wait for civ6 to come out and totally forget about civ5. (funny thing about us veterans... we have friends... friends who wont buy civ5 after I told them it sucks.)
     
  12. MasterDinadan

    MasterDinadan Warlord

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    You can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time.
     
  13. tom2050

    tom2050 Deity

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    This is right-on perfect analysis here. Since the AI is so horrible at any difficulty, it only comes down to dealing with outrageous AI bonus'. The strategy was supposed to be the big thing with 1upt and hexes; but the strategy required is non-existent because the AI stinks. For the cash everyone has dished out, we are left with nothing but mostly negatives and a few positives to mess around with. For new games of the same title, it is ridiculous that they actually cut major portions of the game out that have always been in.

    They concentrated their efforts on a few things (combat, graphics and AI, and they failed on the AI) and seemingly ignored gameplay.
     
  14. pennjersey83

    pennjersey83 Chieftain

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    I would like to take this opportunity to apologize for creating a thread that trivializes the opinions of people who have played Civ for a long time. After reading many archived and current messages on the forums, I realize that many people are just dissatisfied that many of their favorite features have been streamlined too much for their liking. I understand that some depth (that I never experienced being a noob to the series) may have been lost and hopefully they can add some hardcore expansions that bring the depth back for the veteran gamers.

    I would like to delete this thread but am uncertain how to do it. If a moderator happens to read this I would ask that you delete this thread if possible. Thanks to all those who have replied
     
  15. slightlymarxist

    slightlymarxist Comrade

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    I disagree the game has been "dumbed down". They've removed some complexity/gimmicks (religion, espionage) but added MORE depth to core mechanics (Culture/Borders, Social Policies, Combat). If anything, Civ5 is a deeper game than Civ4, which was mostly about micromanagement and logistics.

    Depth =!= Complexity.

    That said, there are some glaring issues about the game in terms of combat/diplomacy AI. I hope these will be addressed soon. Other than that, it's a great game and I'm enjoying it immensely!
     
  16. Red Dwarf Devil

    Red Dwarf Devil Little Green Man

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    Took Civ iV and Beyond the Sword of my comp when I got Civ V, but have given up on it now and going back.

    Once Civ 4 & BTS were re-loaded installed the WolfRevolution Mod and back to a real challenge.

    Will keep Civ 5 there waiting for when the Uber Modders get 5 to what we old timers were expecting.

    Phunus if you are reading this when can we expect something "pretty please"
     
  17. Ogaburan

    Ogaburan Warlord

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    This just says so much about you.

    A classic example of someone who just is happy with what he is given, dosent explore to see if there are better things... nor tries to improve them. Ignorance is indeed a bliss and as a student you should understand my point of view.

    "Go back to CiV 4" is such a stupid remark. You know the current developer was "one of those people" who kept criticizing Cid's games.


    So CiV is a product of those "civ veterans" that nothing is good enough for them.

    I for one am happy to be labeled one.

    And i like people who know what they like\want and voice their concerns/criticism about it.

    As for all those CiV haters, Civ 4 has evolved so much for the last years people forgot how it was when it started.

    Firaxis is a business and Cid is a businessman, what do you expect form the mam who whored his creation and made a horrible bastard child named civ rev. At least they included good modding tools. Let them earn their buk, they earned it. Concentrate on making CiV better by modding... if you arent happy with it.

    Firaxis has a good marketing strategy - "If u don't like it, change it".
    What more can you ask?

    ((better AI))
     
  18. MasterDinadan

    MasterDinadan Warlord

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    Culture in Civ 4 irritated the heck out of me. Crucially important if you were going for the victory... nearly useless otherwise. Not terribly interesting.
    A lot of mechanics seemed like that, though culture is the best example.

    Health was not terribly interesting. Once your city reached the "equilibrium" there was fundamentally no real difference between adding more health and adding more food.

    Diplomacy with the AI... some people liked it and some people hated it. I was one of the latter. Getting other civs to like you was basically based on some arbitrary flags such as which religion you were and which civics you were using. Diplomacy consequences in Civ 5 seem much much more sensible, even if they are less complex. I do wish they were better documented though.

    Religion was way too complicated and fiddly for something which should have been an optional part of the game, in my opinion. I don't really see a reason to make a distinction between religion and culture.

    I like Science in civ 5 a lot more. In civ 4 it's pretty much about building some cities with as much trade as possible and setting your science slider to as high as it will go without you losing money. The culture slider was almost pointless and the espionage slider was highly situational.

    Combat was frustrating (stacks of doom). War was mostly about how efficiently you could produce military, there wasn't much to the tactics. That being said, the AI has a poor grasp on tactics in Civ 5, but that's a drawback with the AI, not the 1 UPT system.

    I really liked the civics system. That's one of the best things I can say. While I like that culture is more universally useful in Civ 5, the policy trees and culture victory are poorly implemented.

    I also liked the bigger tech tree in Civ 4, though it was very hard to learn with the prereqs being kind of confusing at times.

    I'll mention a few things I like about Civ Rev... Great People and spies. Though I really remember enjoying the "spy" mechanics in SMAC the most (I think they were called probes) but I remember very little about how they actually worked.
     
  19. VirtualMark

    VirtualMark Chieftain

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    I actually enjoyed Civ Rev when it came out, as i liked the fact that you could play Civ on a console. Yeah it was dumbed down, but it was good for a quick xbox live match. However, after a few weeks, i got totally bored and stopped playing it. I eventually traded it in.

    I've played Civ since the first, and loved Civ IV. I even loved it the first day it came out, whereas a lot of people didn't like the early version. I was blown away by it, and thought it was awesome.

    That has not happened with Civ V. I found it interesting at first as it was new. After several games i am now bored of it. This has never happened to me with a new civ title before!

    To the OP, i seriously suggest you give Civ IV a go, beyond the sword is the best version of civ i have played.
     
  20. Maxor127

    Maxor127 Warlord

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    A refund for a Steam game? Haha. I don't think so. Those don't exist. Nope, I've accepted that I bought a $100 (special edition) bookend.
     
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