To colonise or not to colonise

[ospamiony]

Hello,

Let's assume there's a small island in the middle of the sea with a luxury resource.
Is it worth founding a city there?

My calculation is:
- The extra resource will give me +4 happiness.
- The extra city will give -3 happiness
- The population of 1 in city will give -1 population

Which at the very start gives us zero gain.

Am I missing something or going for an extra luxury resource will not give you more happiness one could hope for?

(in civ 3 it was worth your while to grab small islands with luxury resources).

 

[killmeplease]

another city adds to your tech and policy costs (5 and 15 % respectively)
so you should not colonize 1-tile islands - unless there is some seafood

 

[ospamiony]

another city adds to your tech and policy costs (5 and 15 % respectively)
so you should not colonize 1-tile islands - unless there is some seafood

Yeah that adds to the penalty stack.
So I'm guessing in CIV V new city needs to pay of the extra disavanteges it creates.
Which sometimes it's not worth the extra effort...

 

[joncnunn]

Hello,

Let's assume there's a small island in the middle of the sea with a luxury resource.
Is it worth founding a city there?

My calculation is:
- The extra resource will give me +4 happiness.
- The extra city will give -3 happiness
- The population of 1 in city will give -1 population

Which at the very start gives us zero gain.

Am I missing something or going for an extra luxury resource will not give you more happiness one could hope for?

(in civ 3 it was worth your while to grab small islands with luxury resources).

Unless there's another key tile like a missing natural wonder or a strategic resource you need more of, it's not worth self founding. It does meet the criteria to keep and puppet should an AI found it and let the city grow big enough before you conquer it.

Also if you are playing Indonesia and haven't yet founded the 3 overseas colonies if there is an empty land tile next to that luxury tile it would very much be worth self founding.

another city adds to your tech and policy costs (5 and 15 % respectively)
so you should not colonize 1-tile islands - unless there is some seafood

If you are playing BNW, that is 10% per city cultural increase, NOT 15%. Also note that as a direct result, the puppet initially isn't permanent any more, but instead is just waiting until the city both comes out of resistance and wouldn't delay construction of national wonders. (It's pretty easy post annexing to get some more culture to make up a large enough share to avoid slowing polices too much.)

If this is Vanilla or G&K, then it is the 15% per city, but there isn't a science penalty in those versions. Yes, unless you went Liberty, 15% was very difficult to cover and so an AI city with 1 luxury and 3 fish resources you conquered was usually left as a puppet forever.

1 tile luxury island with sea food and nothing else could only meet the criteria to self found if that luxury has a pantheon benefit to the religion that city will be following. Otherwise it's on the let the AI found list, let it grow at the increased AI growth rate (difficulty level dependent), and later puppet.

Yeah that adds to the penalty stack.
So I'm guessing in CIV V new city needs to pay of the extra disavanteges it creates.
Which sometimes it's not worth the extra effort...

Exactly.
The tactics for Tall Tradition are built all around that, you only self found 3 or 4 cities [including the capital] but they are the best city spots you know about at the time.
(The ability to defend is part of the criteria)

If desired you then attach a wide empire via conquest of the AI cities, but normally thinning them down by razing AI's junk locations and just keeping the good ones, but you can definitely win peaceful victory without conquest simply by focusing on science.

 

[EgonSpengler]

If the one resource is the only reason you have to found the colony, then it's probably not worth it. I'll start a new city far away from my country for resources, to open new trade routes, a place to repair ships, and a base to threaten enemies with land and air units. I don't think there's any way to establish an air base like Midway Island or Diego Garcia (or rather, such an airbase would be a city with a population of 1 and few buildings).

 

[kingfish101]

Well that small island would be good for a base.

 

[killmeplease]

btw what happens if indonesia founds a city on a resource? iirc an indonesia's resource is added to the city plot, but there cant be 2 resources at one plot.

 

[Matthew.]

It is tough to justify a late-game city. Technically once you get it built up it will give you a small bonus to gold and science, but the number of turns you need to invest often means the game will be over before it has any significant impact.

Also once that city gets happiness buildings and perks, it will free up that luxury to add to your global pool. But again, the number of turns to invest, it just isn't worth it for +4 happiness.

 

[kingfish101]

btw what happens if indonesia founds a city on a resource? iirc an indonesia's resource is added to the city plot, but there cant be 2 resources at one plot.

I think it disappears if it is directly on a resource. Literally, it disappears and is not usable.


EDIT: The resource disappears.

 

[RCM88x]

I would not advise "colonizing" a land area if the city cannot pull its own weight in you empire. For example if its only going to produce 30 Beakers, and your total production is 1200 Beakers, its probably not worth it for the added tech cost and SP costs.

Plus, for me starting cities after turn 300 is rather useless unless you are grabbing necessary resources like Coal, Uranium, or Aluminium. As these city's will never be able to "catch up" building production, and will be nothing but a happiness hit.

 

[Ryoga]

You never found a new city for the sole purpose of getting an extra luxury. The extra luxury is something that you want to have in your new expansion when you need a new expansion to begin with.

 

[tetley]

If that resource leads to WLTKD, you bet I will found it. Unless everything but that one resource is rubbish.

 

[Browd]

Founding a new city for 20 turns of +25% growth in a city or two? And a 5% science penalty and 10% social policy penalty? OK

 

[Sir Parker II]

Another thing to consider, in a more mid game situation, is if the city will open up new trade route opportunities with civs you couldn't reach before.

 

[kingfish101]

Quick question: Do you guys ever colonize other continents? Or just stick to your own continent?

 

[Sir Parker II]

I usually find settling other continents useful, whether it is setting up a city to fuel my conquest of that continent, trading, or just acquiring resources.

 

[tetley]

WLTKD is not that simple as one bout of 20 turns. You need that resource before you ever get WLTKD again. Obviously you search CS and other AI for it first. But if that's not happening, you do what you gotta do to get the wagon train rolling again.

 

[joncnunn]

btw what happens if indonesia founds a city on a resource? iirc an indonesia's resource is added to the city plot, but there cant be 2 resources at one plot.

It's replaced with Indonesia's resource.
The sad thing is there is no warning if there is a hidden strategic resource present that you don't yet have the tech for.

 

[kingfish101]

Well if you have a lot of said strategic resource, it won't affect you that much.

 

[werothegreat]

I would not advise "colonizing" a land area if the city cannot pull its own weight in you empire. For example if its only going to produce 30 Beakers, and your total production is 1200 Beakers, its probably not worth it for the added tech cost and SP costs.

Plus, for me starting cities after turn 300 is rather useless unless you are grabbing necessary resources like Coal, Uranium, or Aluminium. As these city's will never be able to "catch up" building production, and will be nothing but a happiness hit.

See, a combination of Tithe and spamming Holy Sites, in addition to my trade routes, typically means that by the time I'm in the Industrial era, whenever I plop down a new city, I can just purchase Aqueduct, Granary, Workshop, Harbor, and watch the little sucker grow like a weed.