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to everyone questioning trad/liberty mix

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by klaskeren, Mar 5, 2014.

  1. klaskeren

    klaskeren Prince

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    If you got enough room for it, and nice spots like this, tradition liberty mix with 6 cities will just dominate in a science game, just wanted to share this screenshot.

    Spoiler :
     
  2. Erneiz Hyde

    Erneiz Hyde Warlord

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    In theory, I've been convinced to believe that indeed it would be superior, but...
    Goddamn that's godly.

    I guess instead of dipping to Aesthetics after finishing Trad, you now finish Trad a little later and just in time to go right to Rationalism after.

    Question though, what's your SP order in that game?
     
  3. Vitruvius

    Vitruvius King

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    Piety Russia? On growth no cities even religion gets overwhelmed...

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
     
  4. Airey

    Airey Prince

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    Can you provide the game's initial save(turn 0)?

    It's only comparable to play on the same map and same setting.

    With this strong map, conclusion cannot be made base on a screenshot alone.
    1. every city can build observatory and strong early growth AND production
    2. other strategies can peak a few turns later but result a earlier win date.

    Just base on this screen shot alone does not = mix Trad/Lib is better than Full Trad + early rat/ideology

    Sure the science output is higher than other normal map and AI's aggressive forward setting.
    Judging by
    -the number of cities AI has and
    -pop in their cap respectively,
    -number of military units we have
    it's prob not on a difficulty level.
     
  5. kb27787

    kb27787 Emperor

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    that map looks big btw... I cannot imagine that's a standard map.
     
  6. anthropophage

    anthropophage Warlord

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    With all those mountains and rivers you're going to be spectacularly fast. Sometimes the map generator is very kind.
     
  7. klaskeren

    klaskeren Prince

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    trad opener, liberty to settler, rationalism
     
  8. Conspirator

    Conspirator Prince

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    With this start going full Tradition would also be dominance.
     
  9. Memoryjar

    Memoryjar Emperor

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    Navigation before or after Engineering ?
     
  10. sschmalz

    sschmalz Warlord

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    Looks too good to be true from the screenshot. Either I'm doing something terribly wrong or there are some legit questions to be asked. Not the least of which is what difficulty is this? I'm lucky if my empire looks 1/4 as good at t128 on immortal. Also, like others have said, your empire sits in a Montana-ish terrain...couldn't be better. Giving all the glory of the empire to trad/lib mix seems a bit overstated.
     
  11. klaskeren

    klaskeren Prince

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    sorry i mean trad opener, liberty to settler, finish tradition, rationalism
     
  12. adwcta

    adwcta King

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    Its hard to be believable when you don't show the game settings, and play on a map without water (which doubles the living space of the world from a standard map, makes expansion peaceful and guaranteed, etc).

    I think you would make your point better putting this on a standard map and posting a screenshot of standard settings (and also disclosing the difficulty).

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
     
  13. klaskeren

    klaskeren Prince

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    well it was not meant to be such a serious thread, but this is a gauntlet game with settings in this thread:

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=521895

    Expansion: Brave New World
    Victory Condition: Diplomacy (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
    Difficulty: Warlord
    Map Size: Large
    Map Type: Great Plains Plus
    Speed: Standard
    Leader: Shoshone (Pocatello)
    Opponents: Any
    Version: SV8
    Date: 1st to 16th March 2014
     
  14. sschmalz

    sschmalz Warlord

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    It's such a highly debated topic in these forums, what combination of policies is best, that any thread titled "to anyone questioning..." immediately leads the reader to think that the OP believes he has found the perfect combination, and thus you have drawn a lot of scrutiny.

    As a few of us suspected, the glory of your civ isn't due to your policy selections, it's your settings.
     
  15. klaskeren

    klaskeren Prince

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    cmon, how can you possibly conclude that? what settings make this so special? warlord difficulty doesnt really favor liberty, sure you have to generate more cash yourself, but favors pure tradition as CS allies are easier and expansion spots are easier to get, great plains is not very much different from pangaea, sure large map gives a bit of bonus science with more cities, but not enough that this would not be better than 4 cities, im not saying that i found the perfect combination, im saying that given the circumstances that you have lots of nice expansion spots, trad/liberty does better than trad alone.
     
  16. klaskeren

    klaskeren Prince

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    you mean astronomy? i take that before eng, i dont tech navigation before the lategame
     
  17. Justice1337

    Justice1337 Sofa King

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    Settings plus map conditions does not make an optimal SP opening.

    Opening just Trad here would probably have your first 4 cities 2-3 pop higher, and the Observatories would probably be 8-10 turns quicker in getting up as a result. Not to mention being 3 policies ahead of where you're at in Rat. And you could've built just as many cities here whatever SP you open, given you're on Warlord. Maybe even if you don't found as many cities under pure Trad, but pure Trad founding equal numbers of cities is ahead.

    Meanwhile opening just Liberty here, and you've got an extra Academy, you've improved your dirt earlier, and you're 4 policies ahead working on your 5th. After all, you don't need border expansion that much since you are Shoshone.

    Heck even opening just Piety, you're probably in a similar spot with city count due to no pressure whatsoever, slightly smaller size, way better Gold/Culture/Faith production.


    I'm not sure which leads to a faster VC under diplo, but I do know that on higher diff's it's not a hybrid. Going 6 cities then waiting until your 6th policy to get your first Happiness policy (Monarchy), leaves a LOT of Gold on the table. So you're essentailly carrying all of the Gold disadvantages of a Liberty opening with only a limited number of shared benefits. Unless of course you completed all CS quests, founded a Double-Building Religion w/o a Faith Pantheon, and essentially own everything outside your empire because you're on Warlord. That case, maybe just get more stuff, I don't know.
     
  18. manu-fan

    manu-fan Emperor

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    And there we have it - Difficulty - Warlord.

    Any combination of Policies is stellar on Warlord.
     
  19. adwcta

    adwcta King

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    On higher difficulties with less room (a normal map, and deity), you will be pushed for spots to peacefully expand into. More importantly, you also won't have the help of GL, and other wonders you've built.

    Reproduce the results on a standard map, and it'll be recognized. Your evidence (even anecdotal) doesn't match your claim right now. If your claim is for standard settings, your evidence should be as well. You're trying to show how great your midgame science output is, right? Well, that's affected by difficulty, map size, and map type. 6 cities on large is actually equivalent to 4 cities on a standard map, if I'm not mistaken.

    Many things work in your favor here that are not present on standard maps. Once you start weighing factors, you're back to theory crafting, which is fine, but its as convincing as it is in the other thread, because the "evidence" here is non-standard.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
     
  20. sschmalz

    sschmalz Warlord

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