To Those Wishing For The Demise Of Civ 5

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by John-SJ, Nov 20, 2010.

  1. Tee Kay

    Tee Kay Silly furry

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    If the criticism is valid, then the developers must show they care about the game and the community and do something about it. If they don't address their critics, then they deserve to fail.

    Whiners are unfortunately an occupational hazard. However, it's always on the part of the developer to make a good game in the first place and, if there are bugs or whatever, do their customers a service and fix it at the earliest opportunity. Whiners won't go away but they won't have as much fuel to work with.
     
  2. Zamp

    Zamp Chieftain

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    Without whiners, nothing would be done. You'd just have people here and there saying what they think should be changed. Whiners tell you something is wrong with your game and constructive criticism tells you how to fix it. You need both for something to change.

    If Firaxis goes bankrupt, that doesn't mean the demise of the Civilization franchise. Sid Meier will be still around and Civilization will always be his most praised game. All the modders in the community will still be here and many will become programmers. The developers of free civ will still be here. All of these people will keep Civilization going even if it's under a new name.
     
  3. ezwip

    ezwip Prince

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    I don't know how this site is setup but I'm guessing they do make a profit off of civilization. It's hard to say how much but we see the 1up banner flying. If this game is not successful and the majority of criticism is negative it would also effect the well being of the site. When I see topics like this I think it's only a matter of time before another civilization forum pops up and takes their place. It's best to just let the dice roll and hope Firaxis fixes it up. I certainly hope they do not stop allowing negative threads. That wouldn't be much of a forum.
     
  4. Sofar Sogood

    Sofar Sogood Chieftain

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    Even without solid Civ 5 sales, Civilization as a franchise probably has enough momentum to carry through for one more game.

    That said, I'm uncomfortable with "gaming the system," so to speak. Playing the sales numbers raises more complications than I think we really need. Much better to let the game win or lose on its own merits. Whatever the companies learn from this is up to them. Going to hope they learn the right lessons, but oh well.
     
  5. John-SJ

    John-SJ Chieftain

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    So? Why not help with that quality by providing good feedback rather than whining, which will only turn off potential customers?

    I am not referring to you specifically with my question, but to the community at large.

    It has been pointed out that there is good feedback going on, and I agree with that, and hope it continues, and even increases.

    It can not be denied however that there is whining as well. This helps no one. Not Firaxis. Not current players. And not potential players.

    All I'm saying is, our behavior will have an influence on the next Civ game, or the next Firaxis game. One way or another.
     
  6. el_hidalgo

    el_hidalgo Prince

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    Much as V may be a disappointment to (some of) us, as far as I can tell, it is still a huge seller.
     
  7. lschnarch

    lschnarch Emperor

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    I *have* helped them. They've got my money.

    And to be honest, recommending this game at the current state to a potential customer is like guiding him into a pit trap.
     
  8. Buccaneer

    Buccaneer Deity

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    Again, if Firaxis and its publisher could survive the awfulness that was Civ3 and go on to make the great Civ4, I guess there is hope. In a tough economic time (and with declining interest overall in PC gaming), I also think the margin of error has been decreased though.
     
  9. Zamp

    Zamp Chieftain

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    Whining is needed to get things done. It's the voice of the majority and the loudest one to boot. I'd rather have Firaxis knowing that it's game is a complete failure and they need to rebuild it from the ground up to fix it than them getting little sweet suggestions that they'll add in on their own time with no fear of going bankrupt.
     
  10. Buccaneer

    Buccaneer Deity

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    2K and Firaxis get "whines", suggestions and changes on a daily basis from the test teams. 2K has stripped much of Firaxis' resources to implement significant changes (or even to start working on Civ6) apart from quick and simple fixes. You can whine all you want but without the resources, not a lot can get done, esp. in a timely manner.
     
  11. Zamp

    Zamp Chieftain

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    In this situation, little fixes won't do anything to make Civ5 any better. If it's true they can't make large overhauls, then I'll give them a suggestion of my own: stop wasting your time.
     
  12. Zyxpsilon

    Zyxpsilon Running Spider

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    After reading the above, some strange thoughts suddenly popped into my mind & as a result, i may have figured out a few important things - no doubt, as much as many more forum members here have already;

    -- The lack of a polished (or solid stability in many areas) product actually *HELPED* generating lots of reactions from fans... be it negative or positive. Pubs, free_of_charge!

    -- Firaxis_GameSpy_2K_Steam; Seeing a pattern? Who controls what & why? Development and distribution (by some extent, support) are two different beast. We are caught in a loop of gigantic corps feeding us the data for a price. We sustain them or as it happens, whine for pretty darn basic reasons -- Emotions. We love or hate.

    -- I believe it was clear from the start that the main objective was to allow for better & easier modding. Thus, was created the fantastic ModBuddy set of tools. Yet, that *TOO* was fairly unstable. Again... reactions. Getting my drift yet?

    -- Silly AIs, bad diplomacy processing, slick but weird (to some people only, in fact) UI, features lowdown from earlier civ_ersions, static images in places... once more, are you paying any attention?

    The facts are obvious.
    Like it or not perfection doesn't exist in this world. Firaxis did its best. 2K sucked it all up for fast cash. Steam (as usual) wants bonus money from DLC.

    But, the final conclusion will never be more evident for my tricky intellect; Time will tell.

    Cuz, CiV is bound to improve dramatically & heading for greater days if only by sustained interest from TRUE gamers & a community of excellent modders all too willing to provide free_as_in_no_cost_to_you supplemental assets to a game we all love -- or hate, btw.

    And, to those which this applies; Stop whining, it's pointless.
     
  13. Hormagaunt

    Hormagaunt Warlord

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    I think you've got those two the wrong way around. For me, a whiner just complains; he offers no suggestions. Others (hopefully such as myself) offer complaints, but also provide constructive criticism.

    Truthfully, given *only* a choice between continuing on the Civ5 path or the failure of Firaxis, I'd say let them sink and hope a new company starts up to provide a new run at the Civ series.
     
  14. ohioastronomy

    ohioastronomy King

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    If you believe that a game developer has failed, then they have to regain your trust.

    By, for example, firing a poor lead game developer, or acknowledging design flaws, or indicating in some way that they hear you and are listening to your concerns. I'd be glad to support a new version under those circumstances.

    Just giving money to a company that makes a bad product only encourages them to make other bad products.

    At this point I won't buy another Firaxis/2K product until I've seen good user reviews and until they've indicated that they understand the issues with the current game. And. in particular, I won't buy anything where the Civ 5 designer is the lead - since he has demonstrated that he doesn't understand how a good game works, and apparently can't recognize when cool ideas just don't work in practice.
     
  15. beestar

    beestar subdeity

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    I'm a little confused by the logic.

    If the game is poor, then Firaxis/TakeTwo need more help in making a good Civ 6, so we should talk it up and recommend it to our friends so the developer realizes more sales and profit, and can make a great Civ 6.

    If the game is good, then we should give honest positive recommendations to our friends, and they will buy more copies, and the developer gets more money, and they will make a great Civ 6.

    If we followed the OP recommendation, how could the developer tell whether it had made a good game or not?
     
  16. PawelS

    PawelS Ancient Druid

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    If I understand the OP correctly, he didn't ask those who don't like the game to praise it and recommend it to their friends. He only asked to make the criticism less harsh and more constructive.
     
  17. Zyxpsilon

    Zyxpsilon Running Spider

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  18. vsipinen

    vsipinen Warlord

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    So what exactly has the Firaxis done to deserve such strong hatred ?

    In my opinion they have again made good and entertaining game. It is clear that not everyone are happy about it, but has there ever been game that has satisfied everyone ? Sometimes I think that would it be better that the most furious complainers would just leave and let the people that like the game enjoy the game and discuss the game in more positive manner (currently it is sometimes little difficult to find positive discussions in these forums).
     
  19. Krall

    Krall Warlord

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    Hasn't Civ V already succeeded in terms of sales?
     
  20. Aristos

    Aristos Lightseeker

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    You should be more careful with that expression. If you are referring to the modders, well, that "loose knit group of amateur programmers" did a way better job than the present official developers. In fact, you may be confusing one group with the other, judging by your quoted expression...
     

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