Tokugawa is my neighbor

[soundjata]

Is there a way to make Toku open his borders ?

It seems to me like he won't.

(btw I am playing the game without add-ons or updates. Don't know if BTS, warlord or vanilla )

 

[Mylene]

Need to get him to pleased, not sure how it works in "vanilla" but you should be able to settle a crappy city near him and gift it, that will give a boost large enough to get him to open borders normally.
Getting him to pleased the normal way can be hard, as he tends to overreact with negative diplo hits on everything.

 

[soundjata]

Thanks Mylene for your reply!

Does that mean he behaves in the same way with other AIS?

The thing is Toku is between me (Saladin, will discover Confucianism soon via oracle) and Hatsy who is Hinduist.

Fair enough if he is closed to both religions AFAIC.

 

[MarigoldRan]

In other words, forget about it.

EDIT: Can you kill him?

 

[soundjata]

Hm no I am planning for a peaceful cultural victory.

edit: If I build the confucian shrine, I guess my religion will spread anyways?

 

[MarigoldRan]

Sorry for being persistent, but can you kill him first, and then go for a from-now-on-I-will-be-peaceful cultural victory?

The reason is because Tokugawa is a very unpleasant neighbor to have. Even if you're peaceful with him, he'll demand a lot of negative diplo modifiers from you against everyone else. Or vice versa. If you refuse, he'll just get pissed at you again.

 

[Tristan_C]

Shared Civic (6) + a tech gift (4) is probably the best peaceful bonus you will get from him. Since he doesn't trade, you can gift him banking in relative safety.

 

[soundjata]

Then I am inclined to settle a juicy city with iron close to Hastsy's borders, give it to Toku.
If he opens borders I can spread my religion in Japan.

Hope that will not make him a monster though...

 

[LeftAdjoint]

If you can pull it off, try gifting an empty city with an adjacent barbarian.

I actually just played a game next to Toku. Gifted a city early and he was my best ally all game long. He tended to fall behind the other AIs due to lack of trades, so I could easily trade for lower techs or bribe him to war.

 

[vicawoo]

So if your borders intersect with his, you'll get an additional +1 from liberating cities and a guaranteed open borders. If you gift any old city, you just get the standard +4.
So because of the 3 tile rule, you'll generally have to plant a city next to one of his that have border popped once.

If you can get a barb city to raze it, that's good, but even better is if it you place it between his borders and another AI's borders, to spark tension.

Also, you can try to plant it to mess up his settling patterns, so it's impossible to grab say a gold due to city proximities.

 

[Ataxerxes]

Then I am inclined to settle a juicy city with iron close to Hastsy's borders, give it to Toku.
If he opens borders I can spread my religion in Japan.

Hope that will not make him a monster though...

He seldom becomes a monster. Toku is famous for shooting himself in the foot by not opening borders or trading. He tends to become irrelevant as the game goes on. It's often not worthwhile to get along with him because he tends to aggravate the other AI's. Gifting him a city might work, but don't give him a good city. And consider the overall diplo situation - don't make him your buddy if you're going to irritate three others doing so.

If you build the shrine, the religion is more likely to spread, even if you don't have open borders. After you get the shared religion bonus, he might open his borders.

The idea about killing him if you can is often the course I'd take. His cities would look better in your color. Since he techs so poorly, you might want to kill him when you get cannons. As another said, Culture Win doesn't necessarily mean no war.