Tokugawa = Worst Neighbor Ever?

[FrancisMarion]

In all my games of Civ, he's the only civ I absolutely hate to have next to me early game.

With aggressive AI, I know for a fact that if we share a border, he's going to declare war on me... everytime, and what makes it worse is the Aggressive/Protective combo is prefect for early game wars.

It's hard to kill off the shock axemen (unless I'm aggressive myself) and expect 3 to 1 losses trying to take a city with garrison 1 drill 1 archers and god forbid some shock axemen as well.

So anyway, who's your least favorite person to have next door?

 

[dutchking]

Montezuma, Tokugawa, Mansa Musa, Huyana Capac.
I hate those AI's. They're the worst in my opinion.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

Gilgamesh is a cock. He's nonviolent but unfriendly. Won't trade, gets pissed at me easily and shuts his borders, puts pressure on my borders with his creative trait... and god forbid I decide to smack him around for his obstinance. Good luck doing that to his decent sized protective garrisons hidden behind jacked up cultural defense. And since he hates starting fights, all the diplomatic demerits go to me if a war does break out.

Dutchking: He did ask who you hate to have NEXT to you. Mansa and Huayna aren't a problem if they're your neighbors, it's if there's a lot of distance between you and them (particularly an ocean) that things get ugly.

 

[axident]

Montezuma, Tokugawa, Mansa Musa, Huyana Capac.
I hate those AI's. They're the worst in my opinion.

I love having stiffs like Capac next door (assuming I have early metal and want to rush someone). He's so hung up on building wonders that you can grind him into dust pretty quickly with a quick axe rush.

Agreed as to Toku and Mansa.

I'd also like to add any civ with Protective, plus the annoying Native Americans, to the list. Maybe also Bowmen-wielding Babylon.

 

[Laurencius]

I play Tokugawa and I am a great neighbor! If you bribe me well I may even open my borders and offer you some rice cakes and sake.

 

[Kadasbrass]

Toku seems to be a wildcard. Most times he's a pain, but a few times I managed to get him to be a good neighbor.

Once I had him locked onto a very small partion of land and my religion passed into his lands, I not only traded to with him and had open borders, he voluntary became my vassel while I was at war with someone else and sent in help.

Another time in a hot seat game, I buttered him up with a free tech or two, same religion, and bribed him to join into a few wars (once on my enemy, another time on other human players enemy).

 

[reclaimer122]

Napoleon... I hate him...

Lol, Tokugawa just sist by and gets angrier and angrier, but never declares war on me. Napoleon could be Friendly and next turn he's sending a stack of 25 units at me

 

[Yzman]

I hate Japan as a neighbor because tokugawa will never frickin open borders or do any kind of good trade unless you are friendly with him. I think he is the worst when it comes to this.

 

[Spearthrower]

I have had some much worse neighbours - ok, they might not have declared war on me and jumped over my fence on the same turn..... but some of them were right pains in the rear!

 

[Lord Neil]

Justinian... very dishonourable...although I know 99% of people on these forums are also... dont trust him... EVER!!!

 

[ShunNakamura]

I like good ole Toku well enough.


I don't care much for Shaka or Monty. Shaka declares war at some of the silliest times against me and doesn't like to negotiate peace even when he is losing[the time in question I was at Feudalism and had Longbows + cats vs. his Impis, Axes, and Swords. I wiped the floor with his main army and he still wouldn't even consider peace[heck I even offered him techs... I didn't have a solid offensive army[no metals and even horses took me ages to get my hands on]].

 

[Random Oracle]

I hate Japan as a neighbor because tokugawa will never frickin open borders or do any kind of good trade unless you are friendly with him. I think he is the worst when it comes to this.

You don't have to be friendly with him, pleased seems enough. A good way to get in Toku's good graces is to share a religion with him.

 

[Seras]

julius caesar, hands down

i've tried everything...no matter if i get our relationship up to +15 he ALWAYS makes tons of demands and stabs me in the back asap.

now if i find him right next to me and spot iron in his capital's fat cross i just reload...it's not worth the hassle

 

[Jabarto]

Tokugawa doesn't make too bad a neighbor, in my games. He never bothers me - except for the occasional extortion - and even if he did declare war, he's always dead last in the tech hierarchy, and thus isn't too much of a threat.

My pick would have to be Pacal, partially because he expands like wildfire and out-techs me because of it, and partially because I have to spend the entire game watching him throw his hands in the air and scream bloody murder when I refuse to freely hand out the few techs I have that he doesn't.

Also, I hate his diplo music.

 

[Carnage04]

Shaka isn't bad. He'll be at cautious and falling fast with me and not sharing a religion and I go to trade and he'll be ready to DoW on ANYONE.

Monty is my least favorite...and it doesn't matter if I'm a neighbor or not. In two different games recently he DoWerd me fairly early in the game from the other side of the map. He sent a boat with two weak units on it, never engaged me again, and wouldn't talk to me for like, 40 turns. My War weariness grew and grew until my economy was starting to lay in ruin.

 

[SickCycle]

I'd rather have Toku then Khmer.... *grumble*

Monty is crazy but he's not bad, he usually sticks with his jags for a bit and will fall behind in techs generally and since you know the guys is a freakin nut case you can anticipate what he'll do.

Toku, just wont trade with you, the trick is to share the same religion and after that he's a great ally I find.

Boudica I love and I hate, I love to keep her around I hate to fight her units, she is scary stuff.

I don't like ragnar either, Aggressive/Financial is killer, on a water map he terrifies me.

If you play Aggressive AI, I'd urge you to *always* stay friends with Shaka, hes a fabulous attack dog but if he turns on you..... wow, he will stack so many units it'll make your eyes bleed watching them slam into your cities, wave after wave, after wave, after wave...

 

[Sultan Al-Malik]

Tokugawa once became my vassal very early in the game by choice. I still wonder what happened to generate such a request from Tokugawa, while my main cities were far away (no where near) from him and only 3 satellite cities were touching his border.

 

[DrewBledsoe]

Since with only half your brain engaged, cities are so much easier to defend than take, the stupider and more aggressive the better. God forbid I get a "vanilla" personality Gandhi or Hatty though, then I might actually have to start a war myself [forbidden]......

 

[bonafide11]

Tokugawa is the most boring neighbor though, in my opinion. There's no reason to ever really contact him.

 

[karlkrlarsson]

Based in some statistics from the AI personality files I made some lists. The can be found at: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=235270

I'll repeat the main ranking here. It uses several variables to determine who is the best and worst neighbour.

0 -MONTEZUMA, GENGHISKHAN, NAPOLEON and ALEXANDER
1 – TOKUGAWA, SHAKA, DE GAULLE, RAGNAR, ISABELLA.MAO and JULIUS CAESAR
2 – STALIN, SURYAVARMAN, KUBLAI KHAN, HUAYNA CAPAC,BRENNUS and CATHERINE
3 – QIN SHI HUANG, MEHMED, LOUISXIV, PETER
4 - GILGAMESH , BISMARCK, JOAO, SALADIN and PACAL
5 – HANNIBAL, CHARLEMAGNE, WILLEM ORANJE, SULEIMAN and SITTING BULL 6 – BOUDICA, RAMESSES, AUGUSTUS and HAMMURABI
7 – CHURCHILL, ROOSEVELT, MANSA MUSA, ZARA YAQOB, WANGKON, WASHINGTON, ELIZABETH, VICTORIA, CYRUS
8 – JUSTINIAN, FREDERICK, PERICLES, DARIUS
9 – HATSHEPSUT, ASOKA, LINCOLN
10 - GANDHI