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Tomatekh's New Civilizations

Discussion in 'Civ5 - New Civilizations' started by Tomatekh, Aug 16, 2012.

  1. hokath

    hokath King

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    I think adding the We Love the King bonus back to Rus' is a nice touch. It's not a super OP building, and adding a bit of depth, like looking for a specific resources to buy with your heaps of cash, is always good.
    Giving them the River extension UA is also going to be a quality of life improvement with respect to setting up those city states trade routes.

    So nice changes :D

    One question, and this may have been asked before: how difficult would it be to make the Iroquois 'forests are roads' UA work for tiles which have rivers as a feature instead?

    If this were possible it would buff the Druzhina something crazy, and would make Rus' play more militaristically. This would further differentiate their play style from Harappa.
    • You would trade with city states, because you don't want to trade with potential victims!
    • Instead of trading for the luxuries to start WLTKD, you would acquire them the viking way :mischief:
    That might be moving away from what you/history originally envisaged. But it's fun to talk about it :)
     
  2. Leugi

    Leugi Supreme Libertador

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    As far as I remembember, one of the civs in Scramble for Africa has that, so it should be very easy as the table exists.
     
  3. Reedstilt

    Reedstilt Prince

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    It's Belgium, in case anyone needs to know which one specifically.
     
  4. janboruta

    janboruta Artistriarch

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    It would be a great addition, IMO. Remember that Kievan Rus was heavily river-based (Dnieper and stuff, this river is huge). This is already a very, very different kind of Russia, and fleshing out the idea a bit more wouldn't hurt. But just that little bit.
     
  5. Tomatekh

    Tomatekh Sahib-i-Qirani

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    The "ignoring terrain on river tiles" tag? The only reason I've never used that in one of my civs is because its used in the Kongo mod (which I put together with Pouakai from Cyon's original mod).

    If you mean river tiles actually granting road movement and city connections, I don't think there's a pre-built tag for that. The road movement on river tiles is probably, if not doable, somewhat imitable with lua. City connections is a much bigger problem. I remember even whoward had trouble properly mapping river tiles to check for the connection, and to set the connection itself it would probably need a DLL edit.
     
  6. turingmachine

    turingmachine Emperor

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    While we're talking about Kievan Rus', I was never really a fan of the name you gave the UA after the BNW update. I don't know, "From Varangians to the Greeks" sounds awkward to me.
     
  7. janboruta

    janboruta Artistriarch

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    On the contrary, I really like this UA name, it's relevant to the history of the region. For me, it's rather flavorful.
     
  8. Tomatekh

    Tomatekh Sahib-i-Qirani

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    The name is a direct reference to trade along the Dnieper River to go along with the new trade-route focus of the UA, but I also liked it because it somewhat doubles as a reference to the geographical length of the Rus' city-states as well as their culture (which was very much the result of the influx of Varangian and Byzantine influence onto the native Slavic peoples).

    I don't think the Scandinavia-Byzantium-Dnieper Trade Route has a standard name in English. From what I understand, "Trade Route 'From Varangians to the Greeks'" is a direct translation from how its referred to in Old Slavic and Russian, which is probably why it sounds awkward in English.

    I'm always happy when I get Janboruta's seal of approval regarding my Kievan Rus' mod. :)
     
  9. Rob (R8XFT)

    Rob (R8XFT) Ancient Briton Super Moderator

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    I "did" the Kievan Rus back in Civ 3 for the first iteration of Anno Domini. In case it helps, I thought I'd post my city list, which was researched and checked out way back then.

    Spoiler :

    Ladoga
    Gorodische
    Kiev
    Novgorod
    Starskii Fort
    Pskov
    Suzdal
    Smolensk
    Vitebsk
    Yaroslavl
    Isborsk
    Polotsk
    Rostov
    Beloozero
    Sarkel
    Pereyaslavl
    Tmutorokan
    Murum
    Ryazan
    Chernigov
    Turov
    Pereyslavets
    Dorostul
    Itil
    Vladimir
    Mikulin
     
  10. janboruta

    janboruta Artistriarch

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    It's a solid list, but Kiev should be the capital ;)

    If I may reshape it a little (fix typos and add some cities):

    Spoiler :

    Kiev
    Novgorod
    Gorodische
    Pskov
    Suzdal
    Smolensk
    Vitebsk
    Yaroslavl
    Izborsk
    Polotsk
    Rostov
    Beloozero
    Ladoga
    Pereyaslavl
    Murom
    Ryazan
    Chernigov
    Galich
    Vladimir
    Turov
    Tmutarakan
    Byelgorod
    Novgorod Seversky
    Kursk
    Lyubech
    Oleshye
    Peremyshl
    Nizhny Novgorod
    Starskii Fort
    Itil
    Bila Vezha (renamed Sarkel after it was captured by the Russians - it is on Moriboe's Khazar city list, as is the capital Itil as well)
    Mikulin


    I didn't find many info on Starskii Fort except for an Osprey book, which isn't always a believable source, so I had to move it down below and make space for more important Rus cities.
     
  11. Rob (R8XFT)

    Rob (R8XFT) Ancient Briton Super Moderator

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    Fair enough; I'll hold my hands up and say I'm no expert on the Kievan Rus. The reason Lagoda was chosen at the time, though, was because Rurik conquered it in 862, made it his capital and founded the Kievan Rus. I would presume from janboruta's list that over time, the importance of different cities changed and that Kiev became the principal city.
     
  12. janboruta

    janboruta Artistriarch

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    The problem is, Ladoga's importance diminished quickly and Rurik's successors moved on. Kiev and Novgorod (at the time called Holmgardr) soon were two co-capitals and they were more successful at that task, with Kiev soon outshining many other Russian towns. At least until the country broke up and Novgorod became a powerful merchant republic. Also I felt that the inland seats of Russian dukes like Rostov, Smolensk, Polotsk, Ryazan etc. deserved a higher spot on the list, not because their order of importance within Kievan Rus, but because of overall importance in the region.
     
  13. Rob (R8XFT)

    Rob (R8XFT) Ancient Briton Super Moderator

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    Totally understand. Thinking back, the mod was set in a specific timeframe, for which Lagoda made sense to be the capital, whereas Tomatekh's Kievan Rus is a mod of the civilization as a whole, over a number of centuries.
     
  14. Tomatekh

    Tomatekh Sahib-i-Qirani

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    Fantastic! I'll update the city-list based off your suggestions.
     
  15. Gurra09

    Gurra09 First Consul

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    I'm playing the Goths now - great civ for a Domination game - and I must say that their color scheme is confusingly similar to the gray city state colors. Screenshot in the spoiler with my lands and neighboring gray city state Zurich. It's quite hard to know which units are whose by just looking at them, hehe.

    Spoiler :
     
  16. janboruta

    janboruta Artistriarch

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    The colours might be similar to city states, but I really like this scheme. Plus, the icon with this colours come from the Fall of Rome scenario, so it's easier to use. :)

    By the way, there were some updates today, any details? :)
     
  17. Tomatekh

    Tomatekh Sahib-i-Qirani

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    Yeah, I know :/

    There's also a similar situation with Harappa and one of the city-states. Honestly, though, with 43 official civs colors, 58 city-state colors, and the colors from all the mods I use, I've kind of just settled in letting minor color differences like that be good enough.
     
  18. Tomatekh

    Tomatekh Sahib-i-Qirani

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    Mainly behind the scenes stuff.

    Rus' was an edit to the city list. It's now mostly based off the list you compiled from Rob's suggestions. (Differs in that I kept Rostov as the third city mainly because Yaroslav's titles were as Prince of Novgorod, Rostov, and Kiev; the order is a bit different in terms of the cities shared with Russia as I don't like putting too many of those cities one after another, and its missing the cities shared with the Khazar mod to avoid overlap).

    Goth's was a minor edit to the lua that doesn't impact game play.

    There will probably be a similar minor lua edit to Mali today or tomorrow.

    Sometime by Thursday I hope to have edits for Sumer and Hittites which will include actual game play changes.
     
  19. Skaz881

    Skaz881 History Major

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    Kind of surprised that Ife isn't a part of the Benin city list.
     
  20. Tomatekh

    Tomatekh Sahib-i-Qirani

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    It was, I took it out in BNW because Ife became a religious city-state in the expansion.
     

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