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Tomatekh's New Civilizations

Discussion in 'Civ5 - New Civilizations' started by Tomatekh, Aug 16, 2012.

  1. Tomatekh

    Tomatekh Sahib-i-Qirani

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    Okay so I posted an update for Sumer.

    Two important technical changes:
    - Like most of my mods, the BNW and G&K versions now have slightly different abilities. However, there is still only one Sumer mod. It will load the proper abilities depending on which version you are playing.
    - If you don't have the Wonders of the Ancient World DLC, the mod will now load an alternative graphic for the Vulture UU. This should solve some display issues people were having. (I will do something similar for my other civs that use DLC assets shortly).

    The BNW version had its abilities slightly reworked:
    -The UA now grants 1 population and another 1 population if you settle on a river (as opposed to 1 and another 1 after the classical era).
    -The Ziggurat no longer has the 10% science modifier. It now has a scientist specialist slot, and all scientist specialists in the city grant +1 faith if the Ziggurat is present.

    Everything else is the same. It still only has peace music and still uses the Assyrian leaderhead from Ambrox62's Mediterranean civ pack.
     
  2. Krajzen

    Krajzen Deity

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    Uhm don't want to make it sounding offensive (as I love your civilisations) but i noticed that you like to change unique features and abilities very very frequently :D
     
  3. caprera

    caprera Chieftain

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    How can I modify the look of units to be compatible with REDmod ?

    I was playing History in the making with Kiev and units had no Ester/Rus skin replacements.
    When I met Germany they had the correct replacements, as well as Mali or Nazca.

    It happened the same with Benin and Nri, so here i am.
     
  4. Tomatekh

    Tomatekh Sahib-i-Qirani

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    I wouldn't say I outright change them frequently. For the most part, the core abilities have remained constant. I will admit to frequently tweaking the specifics of the abilities (for balance reasons or because I figured out how to do something I couldn't before). Either that, or I've added an additional bonus to the core ability, again for balance reasons.

    The big exception is that I did a large ability overhaul for a lot of my civs coinciding with the BNW release. This was both me revisiting my older mods and removing new overlap with the BNW civs, as well as taking advantage of new modding options added with the expansion.

    I also do consider a lot of the feedback I get from people playing my mods and adjust the numbers/abilities based on that, which is why you'll often see some changes shortly after a mod is first released.

    Looking at Sumer:
    -UA: When the mod was released in July 2012 it had a food bonus on Flood Plains and a free Pottery tech. It was one of my first mods, I didn't really know how to do much. The first part was boring and inconsistent with start locations, the free pottery tech can be broken and gives no bonus to the AI past a certain difficulty. About halfway into Gods and Kings I gave it the extra population ability. For the most part its kept that UA since then. The current UA is still essentially the same ability, I tweaked it to make it feel more impactful at the start of the game but it's still giving the same bonus.

    -UU: The UU has always had the +10% adjacent ability. With the BNW release I also added the extra starting XP (as the first ability was too weak to stand on its own).

    -UB: The UB has had the science modifier since the release of the mod. This is the first time I changed it, mostly because I never liked the science modifier. It was a passive ability and could end up potentially broken in the late game.

    So in the year and a half the mod has been up, the UA and UB saw one big overhaul. However, for most of the mods existence Sumer has always had bonus population for the UA and the phalanx bonus for the UU.

    Same thing for the Goths. The mod has always had the enemy road, pillage heal, and faith from pasture abilities. With BNW I added the golden age and land unit production stuff to make the civ more interesting, but the base abilities are still there. It also depends on an individual civ basis; the Garamantes have mostly remained constant since their original release. And of course there are some problem civs, like the Hittites, where I've never been entirely satisfied with the abilities I've given them.

    I'm not denying what you said. I think my explanation is that, although I do like to tweak the numbers a lot, I actually do try to keep a level of consistency with the abilities themselves (barring the BNW rework for a lot of the civs). I also always try to keep a link to the previous version of the mod up on the steam mod page so if you don't like the changes you can just keep the old version on your computer.

    And this is also related to me having less time to mod in general. While I don't always have the time to create an entirely new mod, finding the time to refine an existing mod is a lot easier.
     
  5. Tomatekh

    Tomatekh Sahib-i-Qirani

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    I'm not entirely familiar with the specifics of the REDmod, but if I had to take a guess:

    You may have to manually edit the scale in the artdefines of new custom graphic UUs.

    In terms of unit diversity, you would need to check the file where Gedemon sets the specific civ art styles. Assuming they aren't using the standard art styles of the official civs (which my mods all do), you might then have to manually set (in my mod files or in Gedemon's files) the mod civ to use the new art styles. So setting Benin to use whatever art style set up for Ethiopia/Zulu.

    Maybe someone more familiar with REDmod can give a better answer?
     
  6. caprera

    caprera Chieftain

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    Thanks Tomatekh
     
  7. turingmachine

    turingmachine Emperor

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    I don't mind this so much. Mainly because whenever Tomatekh revamps the abilities, the new abilities are usually much more interesting to play with than the old ones. Plus, a lot of the mods are really well balanced because of this. Tomatekh is really consistent in trying to keep his mods up to date, not only in terms of changing the abilities, but fixing bugs and adding new art and stuff.

    I think its much more preferable to the alternative where a lot of modders release a civ and then never update it.

    I would ask in the REDmod thread if Gedemon has specific instructions for making mod civs compatible.
     
  8. turingmachine

    turingmachine Emperor

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    So feedback with the new Sumer.

    I'll miss the 10% science modifier, but I realize why you would want to remove it.

    The switch to the UA is good. As you said, it feels more impactful. That first tech and that first unit comes faster. Also you worked in the river start bonus into the ability itself instead of having it tacked on at the end, which is good. The new UA makes you have to be somewhat more cautious expanding to ensure you have the happiness for that much population so early, but with population and specialist bonuses, the civ is meant to be played tall.

    I do like the new UB, and I think it fits very thematically with the civ and ziggurats in general. I also really appreciate that you got it to update the faith counter on the top panel and scientist specialist slots with +1 faith icons (its something missing from similar abilities I've seen in other mod civs, and gives the ability a level of polish).

    However, two concerns:
    -I feel the civ might be slightly on the weaker side at the moment (not by much, as the extra population and river start help more than you initially realize).
    -Sumer now has an indirect overlap with Babylon.

    Moving the ziggurat back to the ancient era (like you had in the previous version and was something I really liked, thematically, for Sumer) might be enough of a buff (or maybe even too much, being able to work a scientist specialist so early) but would also increase the overlap with Babylon.

    Maybe, +2 Faith from scientist specialists, but that does give the UB a potential to have insanely large yield (then again you need to work it and you don't use specialists in every city).

    Anyway, just my thoughts. I like the new direction, but I feel the mod could use one more slight buff. Switching the UU graphic for people without the Wonders DLC was also a nice change for people who would use it.
     
  9. Skaz881

    Skaz881 History Major

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    I didn't know Kilwa was one of yours, so I should have asked the question here. Is Kilwa going to be updated with music? Plus I noticed that Mogadishu was in the city list and there was no replacement City State for it.
     
  10. Tomatekh

    Tomatekh Sahib-i-Qirani

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    I helped put together the GK version of Kilwa along with Pouakai, Moriboe, and Chris Sifniotis from Cyon's original art. I did a lot of the base xml coding for it, so I usually make sure to add compatibility for it will all of my mods and check for conflicts (although as janboruta pointed out I accidentally put Meroe in both the Timurids and Kilwa).

    However, I haven't really been involved with the BNW changes for the mod. You'll have to ask Pouakai about any future updates.
     
  11. Skaz881

    Skaz881 History Major

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    Thank you, I shall PM them then.
     
  12. Pouakai

    Pouakai It belongs in a museum. Moderator

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    I've been summoned?

    We're going to update it soon - we've got a bunch of new stuff for it, including music, TSL values and Dawn of Man voiceovers. As for Mogadishu, I decided that it's far enough down the city list so that if the city state of Mogadishu is ingame then it'll be settled before the Kilwa city of Mogadishu, so the Kilwa list will skip it
     
  13. Skaz881

    Skaz881 History Major

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    And I just PM'd you too...........wow you're fast!
     
  14. JFD

    JFD Kathigitarkh

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    Alright, here's Tomatekh's YnAMP Compatibility. The first attachment is for those who want to try it out immediately, and the second attachment is for Tomatekh, containing the Project file.

    And here's also a screenshot of what's going to happen a lot :)lol:):

    Spoiler :
     

    Attached Files:

  15. janboruta

    janboruta Artistriarch

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    For the first time in Civ 5: A Crowded Africa :D
     
  16. Tomatekh

    Tomatekh Sahib-i-Qirani

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    Wow, thanks a lot! Saved me a ton of time figuring it all out (which I will now use to speed up a Champa update)!

    And Moriboe's Nri and the Ife city state will be right next to Ubini, and I imagine the Ashanti and the Dakar city state (from the Kilwa mod) would be right next to Nyeni!
     
  17. janboruta

    janboruta Artistriarch

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    Oh yes :) I had to do some acrobatics there, especially with smaller maps (Ife will almost always overlap with the Nri), but the Ashanti should always fit comfortably in the lower left corner of this screenshot. The Kanem-Bornu will be not far to the north-east, too.
     
  18. Tomatekh

    Tomatekh Sahib-i-Qirani

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    Okay, new test version for Champa.

    -Added a fantastic UU icon by LastSword.
    -It no longer replaces the TopPanel.lua file. (The current implementation is still very sloppy, and I didn't set it to only fire on Champa's turn yet, but these are mostly clean-up things which I can quickly take care of for the final release).
    -A lot of the yield changes which aren't constant per turn are now moved to notification messages instead of the top panel. (I'm afraid these will get annoying real quick, though).
    -The old UA got some criticism for either being too negative to other players and/or too passive, so Champa now has a new UA:

    UA: Pirates of the South Sea: Steal Gold from rival Civilizations you are at war with (bonus increases for every enemy City under Blockade) and from Cargo Ships in your territory whose owner does not have an active Trade Route to Champa.

    The values are probably still off; I don't want to set them too high as it does remove gold from the other player's treasuries in addition to giving it to you. The new abilities give the civ a more naval feel, which I like, and you can now actively blockade enemy ports for additional gold or settle in trade lanes to steal from passing cargo ships. Both of these instances are somewhat situational, though, so balance probably needs to be adjusted. There is a base amount you steal from civilizations if you are at war even if you haven't blockaded any of their cities (to help remedy the situational nature). All the values scale with the game era of the opponent, so you steal more gold later in the game.

    The other uniques are unchanged:

    Spoiler :

    UU: Ballista Elephant Replaces Trebuchet. Does not need to set up to attack but has a much smaller bonus vs cities (+100% instead of +200%). +50% defense vs Mounted Units.

    UI: Square Well Available at Optics. +2 Food. +1 Gold after Navigation. Generates Golden Age Points whenever a Cargo Ship (Sea Trade Route) not owned by Champa travels within 2 tiles of the Improvement. May only be built on flatland coastal tiles. May be built outside friendly territory. May not be built adjacent to another Well or on top of Resources.

    Besides from balance feedback, it's just a matter of finishing up the art and the civ will be ready for a public release.
     
  19. janboruta

    janboruta Artistriarch

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    I'll get my hands on it as soon as I can. :) The design looks exceptionally good!
     
  20. Krajzen

    Krajzen Deity

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    Hell, when city is under Blocade? O_o

    EDIT
    I don't know why but I fallen in love with this civ and historical Champa.
     

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