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Tomatekh's Sumer for VP

Discussion in 'Mods Repository' started by pineappledan, Mar 27, 2018.

  1. pineappledan

    pineappledan Warlord

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  2. pineappledan

    pineappledan Warlord

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  3. hokath

    hokath Chieftain

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    I was thinking about the Ziggurat business. It is straightforward to make a City event which fires directly after a City constructs a Ziggurat. That event could ask "choose which Deity to worship", and then you could manually choose the bonus. What do you think?
     
  4. pineappledan

    pineappledan Warlord

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    Heck No.

    As it is now, users don't have the opportunity to pick the best bonuses, which saves me having to balance 15 ziggurats against each other, and saves users from having unfair advantages against the computer, who won't know what to pick.
     
  5. hokath

    hokath Chieftain

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    You can give flavors to event choices for the AI.
    You can also restrict them so that e.g. you can't pick the mine one without having a mine.
    But if you think it's too much effort, fair enough.
     
  6. pineappledan

    pineappledan Warlord

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    It's less the work and more the fact that trying to make the ziggs perfectly competitive with each other would be pretty much impossible without making them all completely divorced from the map. That condition gives you a very limited toolset and would result in all the ziggs being very samey.

    Maybe if they could choose from a list of 4 randomly selected ones, and the pool of 15 never repopulated until all the ziggs were selected? Is that doable? That would also save the player from basically having to stop their game for 5 minutes while they read Every. Single. Ziggurat.

    If we could do a subset, like Shoshone ruins, then I think it’s doable. It would also allow me to lean into the aspects of the specific gods a little better if someone didn’t get stuck with the goddess of salt water on a non-coastal city
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  7. hokath

    hokath Chieftain

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    It's not possible to populate the events list on-the-fly without some disgusting lua script or what have you -- so the choice without replacement idea would be a bit complicated, I feel -- but you could certainly have sets of city events, which each contain a subset of gods, and then one of them fires randomly. You can also have these subsets block one-another from firing -- for a given time -- if you wanted.

    I could imagine you have "buckets" whereby you had 4 choices: 1) terrain 2,3,4) non-specific, and then a couple of buckets of 1,2,3,4) generic. Then, when the Ziggurat is built, the game chooses from the buckets that contain the surrounding terrain types and also the generic sets and presents that specific, fixed set of 4 gods to the player. This lowers randomness without resorting to determinism; if you're really concerned about balance then you only need to consider specific groupings. One of the generic sets could be all the different specialists, for example.

    I think its really worth thinking about because as you say, Goddess of Salt Water in a landlocked Empire is naff.
     
  8. pineappledan

    pineappledan Warlord

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    Well, I need to push a new version of Sumer at some point anyways; Gs changes to yieldonVictory and YieldonPillage broke Ershkigal and Nergal.

    Ninhursag, Nammu and Inzak are the only ones that need a conditional trigger for mountain, coastal, and desert, respectively. Two of those also happen to be specialist slot ziggs.

    If I re-did the ziggs, would you be able to take on making 5 3-option bins of the gods for me? I really don’t have a handle of the event system, and my exposure to it left me a bit cold. Just keep those 3 aforementioned gods separate, and split ereshkigal and Nergal into different bins and it should be fine

    This also means I’m going to have to take a long, hard look at all the ziggs’ balance in relation to each other.... ugh
     
  9. pineappledan

    pineappledan Warlord

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    On second thought, here is what I propose:
    I will make a 16th Zigg: Gugalanna, the Bull of Heaven

    4 bins of 4:
    Ninhursag, Nanna, Dumuzid, Utu
    Inzak, Ereshkigal, Enlil, Inanna
    Nammu, Nisaba, Ninurta, Nergal
    Gugalanna, Enki, An, Ninlil

    Ninhursag requires a mountain in 2 range of city
    Inzak requires city to be on or adjacent to a mountain desert
    Nammu requires Coastal city
    Gugalanna requires a Pasture
    Enki requires Fresh Water

    I'll rework the ziggs to try to get better balance between them. @hokath, if you were willing to help me with the events I would be very grateful. I don't know what I'm doing w.r.t. the events system
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
  10. Serind

    Serind Chieftain

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    Found 2 (i think) more bugs with ziggs:
    1: They dont count as temple, so i can't build Grand Temple ever.
    2: Can't place GW there (not sure if it's intended or not), despite having a visible slot in city UI for it.
     
  11. XxPun12h3rxX

    XxPun12h3rxX Chieftain

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    I personally feel that Sumer's UA needs to be slightly re-tooled. Its a little bit too good, with the bonuses on city founding being really strong on top of the bonuses to specialists. They tend to snowball harder and more often than any other civ in my games and i feel really strong when playing them. Still love the civ, and when i decide to play deity theyll probably be my first choice. (And im not even going to bring up the More UC council replacement).
     
  12. hokath

    hokath Chieftain

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    I'll prepare a file for you. The first two will have the same check of mountain within 2 tiles.
     
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  13. pineappledan

    pineappledan Warlord

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  14. hokath

    hokath Chieftain

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    Yeah I worked Inzak out when I read the bonuses. You also wrote NIDABA (D not S) everywhere in the code so I wasn't sure what the name was meant to be, so I wrote nidaba everywhere and you can change as appropriate.
    I haven't tested it, so probably some typos, but this should be all. I commented everything for you so hopefully its clear enough for you to tinker.
    If you want to know what is possible (1) Community Patch/Core Files/Core Tables/GameEventsTable.xml has it all and is commented by his highness. Probably there is nothing that you need that cant be given to buildings, but worth knowing anyway :)

    p.s. i made all the events chance to fire 0 => they should always fire if possible. I don't exactly know what will happen, if the game chooses between them randomly (what we want), if they all fire at once (might break?), or if one of them always wins (have to make the chance of firing 25%==250 instead or similar)
     

    Attached Files:

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  15. pineappledan

    pineappledan Warlord

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    Yeah, Nidaba/Nisaba are both equally correct, near as I can tell. I think I opted for Nisaba in the final text after I wrote all the code as Nidaba; I thought it sounded a little more phonetically unique.
     
  16. hokath

    hokath Chieftain

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    Oh by the way, there is something obvious missing, the top level events need a
    Code:
    <RequiredBuildingClass>BUILDING_AKKADIAN_MOD_ZIGGURAT</RequiredBuildingClass>
    Otherwise it will just fire when the City is built :D
     
  17. pineappledan

    pineappledan Warlord

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    I'm re-balancing the ziggurats, changing the text, and looking a bit at balance.

    If I make this change, Sumer will be even stronger because players will have discretion on their zigg choices. I'm considering axing the +1:c5production: in the UA to compensate, but I fear that will overcorrect
     
  18. hokath

    hokath Chieftain

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    I doubt it will overcorrect, even if you axe the food as well.
    If you're worried, you can always run AI simulation while you're afk and see how they do.
     
  19. pineappledan

    pineappledan Warlord

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    v13 is pushed:
    Code:
     - UA: now 40 prod/sci on settle
     - Vulture: removed River Scout promotion (minimal effect, but used a lot of computer resources)
                    New promotion: Gu-Edin tribute: Food in Capital on kills
                    Increased CS to 10 (same as Jaguar)
                    Increased cost to 50 (10 more than warrior, 20 less than spearman)
    - Ziggurat: removed base 1 science. All unique Ziggs now add 1-2 base resources on zigg
                    New Ziggurat: Gugalanna, the Bull of Heaven. See below
                    Ziggurats now can be chosen via an event that triggers when the Ziggurat is constructed. Can choose from 4 options, generated randomly
    
    Spoiler Ziggurats: :

    An - God of Air: +1:c5culture:. -25% :c5culture:/:c5gold: cost to tiles, 10 :c5faith:Faith when City claims new tile naturally.
    Dumuzid - The Dying God: +2:c5food:. +5%:c5food:/:c5production:/:c5culture: during :c5happy:'WLTKD' in this City., 15 :c5faith:Faith whenever a Great person is expended, scaling with era
    Enki - God of Abzu: +1 :c5gold:/:c5culture:/:c5science:/:c5goldenage:. +1 :c5faith:Faith from Lake Tiles.
    Enlil - God of Storms: +1 :c5faith:/:c5gold:. +1 :c5faith:Faith for every CS Friend. +1 :c5faith:/:c5gold: for every CS Ally
    Ereshkigal - Goddess of the Underworld: +1:c5production:/:c5gold:. +1 :c5faith:Faith from Mines, 10 :c5production:Production in City when you kill a Unit, scaling with era
    Gugalanna - The Bull of Heaven: +2:c5production:. +1:c5faith: Faith from Pastures. +5%:c5production: Production towards buildings in this City.
    Inanna - Goddess of Sex: +2:c5goldenage:. 10 :c5goldenage:GAP & :c5faith:Faith from civilian birth. +1 :c5happy:Happiness.
    Inzak - God of the Desert Nomads: +2:c5gold:Gold. 1 Merchant Specialist, +1 :c5faith:Faith to Oases and Merchants
    Nammu - The Primordial Sea: +1:c5production:. +1 :c5faith:/:c5production: for every 2 Coast/Ocean tiles worked by this city.
    Nanna - God Of Wisdom: +1:c5science:/:c5faith:. +5%:c5science:/:c5gold:/:c5faith: during :c5goldenage:Golden Ages in this City.
    Nergal - Lord of Pestilence: +10:c5strength: City Defense, +10% :c5war: Military Supply, +10 :c5faith:Faith in city when you pillage a tile, scaling with era
    Ninlil - Lady of the South Wind: +1 :c5culture:/:c5faith:. +1 :c5culture:Culture & :c5faith:Faith for every 5 :c5citizen:Citizens in City, +20 :c5food: in City when a Policy is adopted, scaling with Era
    Ninhursag - Lady of the Sacred Mountain: +1:c5production:. 1 Engineer specialist, +1:c5faith: Faith to Engineers and mountains within 3 tiles
    Ninurta - Lord of Barley: +1:c5food:/:c5production:. +1:c5faith: Faith from Farms and Camps.
    Nisaba - Goddess of Writing: +1:c5science:. 1 Scientist specialist, 1:c5faith: Faith to Scientists, and 10 :c5faith:Faith whenever a technology is discovered, scaling with Era
    Utu - God of Divine Justice: +1:c5culture:/:c5food:. +1:c5faith: Faith from Plantations and Wheat. Reduces :c5unhappy: Distress in City



    Spoiler Justification for changes :
    UA: The :c5food:food on settle was a problem. It combined with the 4UC council to create an immediate 21-28:c5science: burst if you could invest in the council immediately. It was also identical to Spain's bonus on settle, which I wasn't fond of.

    The :c5science:/:c5production: on settle allows Eannatum to be 2/3 of the way towards his first technology by the end of turn 1, and 2/3 of the way towards his first building. The hope was that it should feel like Eanatum got a 3-5 turn head-start on everyone else in the game. Bigger cities sort of did this, but they caused a few more balance issues than early science should. The science was also stripped from Ziggurats, and I wanted to retain a bit of that :c5science: flavor.

    Vulture: The river scout bonus used an intense, UnitSetXY lua function that fired every time any unit in the game moved, so this was a major hit on performance. In my own games I noticed that I had a lot of trouble taking advantage of river scout, and found it more limiting than enjoyable. There's also a ton of units/abilities that use river movement, and it is getting old (Songhai, Coureurs des Bois, Apedemak Archer)

    The other problem with Vultures was that Onager wagons comes in 1 tech with 4UC, and Onagers are pretty much just better in every way. Adding CS and removing the movement unstacks their focuses a bit, and puts Vultures more squarely into an anti-city and killer role.

    Ziggurat: Removing the 1:c5science: from all ziggurats gives me a bit more wiggle-room to differentiate and balance all the ziggurats. I'm sure there is a lot of fine-tuning to be done to make each of the ziggurats more balanced against each other, so being able to add-remove static yields will help a lot with that process.

    At the behest and assistance of Hokath, I have completely overhauled Ziggurats to take advantage of the events system. Each Ziggurat choice basket contains 1 geographically linked option and 3 unlinked, generic options. Hopefully I can get some input from people re: the balance of these ziggurats
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2019 at 5:19 PM
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  20. Serind

    Serind Chieftain

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    Can build ziggs as Japan (so prob also as every other civ) on 1st v13 version.
     

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