Too-helpful war allies?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Iranon, Nov 3, 2008.

  1. Iranon

    Iranon Deity Whipping Boy

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    In my last game as Darius, I didn't expect to get very far... being smack dab in the middle of Suryavarman, Ghengis, Elizabeth and Hammurabi without any chance of rushing (in a non-suicidal way) or grabbing an adequate amount of land.
    At least being blocked in at a ridiculously early time meant I wasn't wiped off the map by barbarians.

    I engaged in much bend-over diplomacy towards Suryavarman and Genghis (fellow Jews) and joined in on their wars - first against Elizabeth, then Hammurabi - with nothing but a couple of Immortals... and this was in the early ADs.

    These dozen or so Immortals ended up taking every English and Babylonian city, without needing reinforcements. Genghis did all work for me, bringing mostly catapults and a few Keshiks that kindly baited spearmen for me... and Immortals are more than good enough for beating up weakened Longbows.

    Since both conquered empires were large and prosperous, with the majority of wonders and shrines between them, I quickly surpassed the others and a victory was assured before 1000AD (friendly neighbours, three times anyone else's land, the breathing room to set up a total cottage spam, certain to get to Mining.Inc for ~10 hammers per city reasonably soon... I ended up backstabbing Genghis out of sheer boredom and driving him off the continent).

    ***

    Ok, enough exposition. I think something is seriously wrong if I can direct my war allies where to attack, then take all the cities while having maybe a tenth of their military might.
    I was lucky to some extent because Genghis in particular built far too many siege units and not enough cleanup troops but this just shouldn't happen. Maybe there should be diplomatic penalties for city-stealing, maybe allies should ask for captured cities that border their territory, but they shouldn't feed the human like that.
     
  2. nadeem

    nadeem Chieftain

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    i've had that too... i usually do it with my vassals, i'll tell them where to attack, then bring a smaller force right behind to clean up.
    problem is, it can work against you too. if you bring a ton of siege weapons and a few other troops and take a couple of turns to take a city, an AI civ can sweep in and steal the city from you.
     
  3. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam If A implies B...

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    It's touch and go. Too often the AI just takes the city :(.

    Still, abusing the AI is delicious.
     
  4. Roxlimn

    Roxlimn Deity

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    Had a game like that, too. It felt a little dirty, but it was kind of fun. Needless to say, I think this is part of the fun of playing at higher difficulties. You just can't manage that kind of a situation on Prince or Noble - the AIs would take forever to get anywhere! ;)
     
  5. troytheface

    troytheface Deity

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    sounds like good diplomacy and strategy. a guide to diplomacy and allies killing your enemies, and winning the game.
     
  6. Bushface

    Bushface Deity

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    I've tried this a few (very few) times and found that in most cases it didn't work, because you get your turn before your AI ally gets his. So you have to hope that your ally does indeed attack first but doesn't have enough troops to make the capture, leaving it for you to do next turn. However, your ally, I found, is almost always canny enough not to assault unless and until he can be virtually certain of taking the target himself. The alternative is that you make the first assault, in which case your ally can finish the job if you haven't and then you lose any advantage from having an ally at all.
     
  7. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam If A implies B...

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    That's my general experience too honestly. What the AI will usually do for you as an ally is three-fold:

    1. Absorb the enemy stack so that you don't have to do it.
    2. Bombardment, with its main stack or with frigates and coastal crap.
    3. Act as a "land target" for war considerations, greatly increasing your perceived power rating as far as the AI is concerned. It is more likely to capitulate or give favorable deals even if your war ally does NOTHING AT ALL, EVER, as long as your ally has a long enough border (this is the reason chaining capitulation on pangaea is often quite easy).
     
  8. Joshua368

    Joshua368 Warmongering builder

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    4. Pillage away all the infrastructure of your newly conquered territory. :rolleyes:
     
  9. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam If A implies B...

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    I rarely see that. Honestly. The AI seems to head straight for a city, and will only pillage if it has 2 move units in the stack and they move on flat land. Most of the time the impact of this is pretty insignificant. If it's bad though just put workshops everywhere as these take no time to grow and once you have the techs/civics for them they set cities up very quickly for production, which is probably what you're going for if you're on a warpath anyway.
     
  10. Joshua368

    Joshua368 Warmongering builder

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    Eh, it happens, expecially if your partner doesn't have much of a dedicated army and just sents out a few skirmishing parties.

    It may not be an irrevokable loss but it does slow your new cities down, and losing roads is just annoying.
     

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