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Too many "positive" agendas

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Stringer1313, Nov 20, 2020.

  1. Stringer1313

    Stringer1313 Emperor

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    I think there are too many "positive" agendas -- meaning, you are rewarded for doing well. Having a large population, having a lot of nukes, having a lot of boats, having a lot of planes, having a lot of land, etc.

    This does not make sense to me because there is already a ton of snowballing effects and this just adds to it. The game is far more interesting when you have to deal with "negative" agendas like you are getting too many GPs, too many wonders, too many horses (Mongolia), Golden Age, etc. (And there should be far greater negative consequences IMO, like automatically no agreeing to friendship/alliance if agenda not met, etc.).

    I'm not saying the positives should be eliminated, but the negative ones should dominate.
     
    Itsjustanick, Mahi, Piranga and 2 others like this.
  2. criZp

    criZp Emperor

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    Nah, the negative agendas just make the AI seem like a bunch of whiny babies.

    "That was MY great person, I hate you now!!!"
     
  3. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    Yea, and nobody considers Seoneok's agenda a good one.

    The problem with negative agendas is that they reward you for not playing the game. Is anyone going to be like "I'm not going to build wonders, so Qin will be happy?"
     
  4. cain3456

    cain3456 King

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    Huh? :crazyeye: This makes perfect sense to me. Have a strong military & scientific and civic prowess,. and other nations respect you
     
    DWilson likes this.
  5. Time Tested

    Time Tested Chieftain

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    I mean, I certainly will get annoyed if an AI beats me to a GP, but I won't fault them for it, even if they do it consistently. But if they forward settle or steal gold from me? Better expect war. That's why I think the agendas are meh, while the relationship modifiers are pretty reasonable.
     
    Elhoim likes this.
  6. jasper

    jasper Warlord

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    Whats the difference? In either case they are trying to win the game forward settle, wonder build or gp recruit.

    And What is with this welfare philosophy going around lately? If youre doing good then artificial trappings need to be created to set you back? No. Let people reap if they made good choices or fortunate circumstances.
     
  7. The googles do nothing

    The googles do nothing King

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    That's only an issue if you can meet all of the positive agendas in the game, and then only if not meeting an agenda has little effect.
     
  8. Pirate Hamster

    Pirate Hamster Chieftain

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    I had trouble understanding the logic of this thread (for reasons others have mentioned) but maybe something along the lines of every civ having both a positive and a negative agenda would make sense. Possibly in addition to some kind of leader agenda or something. Might make them seem more balanced.
     
    8housesofelixir likes this.
  9. Fluphen Azine

    Fluphen Azine What is Fluphen Azine?

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    It seems obvious that they want to make this game so you can win fast and easy.
    I agree with you that we need more struggle in the game.
     
    ezzlar likes this.
  10. Casworon

    Casworon Prince

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    I strongly agree. It's a 'win more' mechanic. If you are doing well in the game I want the AI to push back against you and challenge you so the game becomes entertaining again.

    At the moment as you start winning the AI all roll over and desire to be your friend so you just hit end turn until you win the game. Not the most entertaining or dynamic thing to experience

    Seems we are in the minority with this opinion though...
     
    Mahi likes this.
  11. Siddharth Venkatesh

    Siddharth Venkatesh Warlord

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    I do wish the AI's would start to react more aggressively if you're doing well. If you're attempting a culture victory and are closing in on a win, human players would threaten you with war to slow you down. I wish the AI would do that more as well.

    The fact you can just auto-renew friendships on the turn they expire is kinda game breaking as well. Once you have good relationships, they will never change and you are completely freed from having to build armies to defend yourself.
     
    Fluphen Azine likes this.
  12. kaspergm

    kaspergm Deity

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    As also discussed in the other thread, I would hate if the AI starts acting in a certain way just because you are "winning". I wouldn't mind the AI turning negative because they are envious of your wealth, scientific progression, or by whatever means you are ahead. But don't make them envious because you are winning. That just kills immersion.

    Wrt. OP question, I don't think there are too many positive agendas - imo. the agenda system is basically 100 ways for the AI to hate you - but I do hate the agenda system with a vengeance. I liked the personalities of Civ5 much better, they were more dynamic and variable between games, and they felt much more meaningful than the more or less random likes and dislikes of the Civ6 leaders.
     
    AlannaT, nzcamel and 8housesofelixir like this.
  13. Linklite

    Linklite Prince

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    I see the role that both positive and negative agendas have. Positive is obvious - it allows you to build alliance and long term relationships. Negative ones provide strategic depth. If Qin is your neighbour, you might decide to get culture via artifacts etc instead of wonders to avoid antagonising him.

    Perhaps it could be rebalanced to make things work better in gameplay, I'm no expert on that, but both aspects are important.

    In terms of preventing snowballing, I think they should have separate modifiers based on how far ahead you are and your relationship. Look at the US - allies suck up to them and rivals hate them all the more. Perhaps a modifier to reproduce it, if they can gain a win by you winning, they'll suck up to you, otherwise they start hating you and try to drag you down.
     
  14. Abaxial

    Abaxial King

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    Yes, but that is not what they say. They say "I like that you have a big army" not "With an army that size I will be careful of you". If your navy is weak, the AI should take advantage, not say "Your navy is too weak". I for one have never done certain things specifically to please an AI agenda - have you?
     
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  15. Depravo

    Depravo Siring Bastards

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    The agendas when the leader wants you not just to build a huge military, but do it in their specific niche are absurd.

    A large army should add power to your diplomatic elbow, of course, but as a specific agenda that works against the rival civ? Did England and France get along better because Louis XIV built a huge fleet?
     
  16. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Deity

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    I'm certainly not seeing easy diplomatic relations post patch. But I seem to be the only one having this issue maybe? I can sometimes get a friendship treaty, but they won't renew it after it expires. I can get green faces, but not friendships in many cases. And then they attack with green (happy) faces. AI isn't as super friendly as they were pre patch it seems. Or maybe it's just my game. Admittedly, I'm only one my first game post patch. Could be a fluke.
     
  17. lotrmith

    lotrmith King

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    How dare you settle near those mountains that are within your sphere of influence and completely on the opposite side of the planet from mine!
     
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  18. Zaarin

    Zaarin Chief Medical Officer, DS9

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    The agendas were a neat idea, but they were poorly implemented. Rather than making the AI feel like it has a personality, the AI just seems manic and petulant instead. I'd much rather see Civ5-style AI personalities return in Civ7.
     
  19. Siddharth Venkatesh

    Siddharth Venkatesh Warlord

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    It's a question of preference I guess. I prefer the AI acting as smarter players versus acting as historical simulations to navigate through. I actually hate Agendas that are just based on random things you choose to do, and would prefer the AI act as far as possible as active players who are trying to win. Both perspectives on this are valid, I see your point in that the AI turning on you just because you are doing well could break thematic immersion. But I play civ partially for immersion but also partially for challenge and I liked that in Civ 5, the late game challenge was there because you couldn't jus befriend the AI through the entire game and have them never do anything to you.
     
  20. Bibor

    Bibor Doomsday Machine

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    The best and most meaningful diplomacy so far in this franchise is still the one from SMAC. The leader agenda matrix in each game, especially in the vanilla version, truly made diplomacy a core game mechanic. The reason why it worked is because it used other game systems to create the matrix, transparently. Every leader could find either valid reasons to cooperate or valid reasons to declare war. It was on the player to navigate the treacheous diplomatic landacape.
     
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