Top 10 "Naval Civs" through Civ 5, DLCs, and Gods & Kings.

[Halcyan2]

As Denmark I went colonizing with an unescorted settler while at war with two Civs. The settler landed, saw a French invading force, and hopped back into the water. He saved himself, and warned me about an invasion, went on to found a city across the bay. Denmark is the best at getting off of boats.

Songhai's Amphibious ability is good, but it's less useful in G&K (than in Vanilla) since you have melee ships now.

Denmark's embark is also really good because the extra movement carries over when you embark, often allowing you to disemark / setup / fire with siege weapons. I'd move up the Danes to 5th, maybe even 4th.

 

[GThreepwood]

I've never really tried naval maps but I think I will very soon.
Ottomans sound really good after G&K.
Nice naval force building UA.
One smooth rifleman ( or musket? don't know ) replacement.
And now when the upgrade line has changed upgrading pike's to lancers will give my army some depth. Now i only want to ask what maps are nice for lots of Naval battles ?

Archipelago, Continents, Continents Plus, Mediterranean, Europe, Earth ?
Oh and what size ?

 

[swishizzle]

Well from smallest to largest land masses (from what I've seen at least) it goes Small Islands, Archipelago, Large Islands, then Small Continents. I love playing Large Island maps, especially post G&K.

And I completely with England being number 1. Not only do they have the + sea movement, but they get an extra spy, a 2 range gattling/machine gun, and an amazing ship. I'd honestly put them in the top tier overall.

 

[jahsoldier]

Somewhat on topic, has anyone ever tried using the Polynesian UU on a Terra map (think that's what it's called - the one where there's an undiscovered continent one somewhere)? I had the idea to set up a game with that map and just set sail with my starting settler right away and enjoy many centuries of undisturbed colonising before the other guys come knocking. Anyone tried that and how did it work out for them?

 

[The A.K.T]

Somewhat on topic, has anyone ever tried using the Polynesian UU on a Terra map (think that's what it's called - the one where there's an undiscovered continent one somewhere)? I had the idea to set up a game with that map and just set sail with my starting settler right away and enjoy many centuries of undisturbed colonising before the other guys come knocking. Anyone tried that and how did it work out for them?

tryed it a few times. U miss many wonder by doing this.

 

[woodshadows]

my vote goes to Japan. a japanese navy is incredibly powerful

 

[SathingtonWaltz]

I've been playing Polynesia lately, and I do agree that the Moai need a buff. I build them all along my coasts anyway just because they look cool and I feel obligated to, but I think a simple +1 food buff would make them so much more useful. I wouldn't mind seeing the Maori Warriors buffed too, say -15% instead of -10%, or just extend the effective range of Haka War Dance or something so that it could effect enemy ranged units.

There is one thing that nobody else has mentioned about Polynesia's naval strength, and that's the fact that Polynesian Triremes and Galeass units can enter ocean tiles. This fact alone should cement Polynesia as having the most maneuverable and combat flexible navy until the Renaissance. Also since Polynesian Triremes can move over ocean tiles they can attack from ocean tiles. This means that a Polynesian Trireme can easily attack another Trireme without being counter-attacked, as other ships can't enter ocean tiles.

 

[Rooftrellen]

You forgot to mention the big important thing for Carthage, and the thing that makes them #1 to me particularly in these situations. Extra hammers from sea resources from the very start. Last game I started as Carthage on continents, I had 6 aquatic resources in my first city to start (and one offshore oil later). You don't need even close to that much to make Carthage an early production powerhouse that easily grows, makes money, and kicks other civs in their hindquarters.

 

[woodshadows]

There is one thing that nobody else has mentioned about Polynesia's naval strength, and that's the fact that Polynesian Triremes and Galeass units can enter ocean tiles. This fact alone should cement Polynesia as having the most maneuverable and combat flexible navy until the Renaissance. Also since Polynesian Triremes can move over ocean tiles they can attack from ocean tiles. This means that a Polynesian Trireme can easily attack another Trireme without being counter-attacked, as other ships can't enter ocean tiles.

unless you're playing against the byzantines who will shoot your trireme in the ocean.

moai's are really fun, but too bad they force you into making decisions to improve lux and other resources or get more culture, also chronic shortage of food if you go real hogwild with the moais. haka warrior things are the worst unit ever conceived in the history of this game. -10%????????????????? not enough to even outmatch a barbarian in even combat, without honour buff/promos. I sometimes build some to stick in my cities to double with the moais to make a 20%, but man.. what a hassle to get that 20

 

[Browd]

You forgot to mention the big important thing for Carthage, and the thing that makes them #1 to me particularly in these situations. Extra hammers from sea resources from the very start. Last game I started as Carthage on continents, I had 6 aquatic resources in my first city to start (and one offshore oil later). You don't need even close to that much to make Carthage an early production powerhouse that easily grows, makes money, and kicks other civs in their hindquarters.

As a result of Carthage's free harbors, in addition to the early extra hammers from worked ocean tiles noted by the prior post, you get free trade routes when you tech the Wheel, and gold fuels everything a naval civ needs.

 

[Crafty Bison]

You forgot to mention the big important thing for Carthage, and the thing that makes them #1 to me particularly in these situations. Extra hammers from sea resources from the very start. Last game I started as Carthage on continents, I had 6 aquatic resources in my first city to start (and one offshore oil later). You don't need even close to that much to make Carthage an early production powerhouse that easily grows, makes money, and kicks other civs in their hindquarters.

Yeah but if you start with all your resources on land it's not doing anything till you get your 2nd/3rd city up which can slow you down alot and diminish your early advantage, and even then the extra hammers you do get aren't in your capital. For this reason i consider them a little situational. I do however love how you can play a complete water world, take a big puppet empire and still get the trade route bonus throughout the game, puppets don't usually build harbours

 

[SathingtonWaltz]

unless you're playing against the byzantines who will shoot your trireme in the ocean.

moai's are really fun, but too bad they force you into making decisions to improve lux and other resources or get more culture, also chronic shortage of food if you go real hogwild with the moais. haka warrior things are the worst unit ever conceived in the history of this game. -10%????????????????? not enough to even outmatch a barbarian in even combat, without honour buff/promos. I sometimes build some to stick in my cities to double with the moais to make a 20%, but man.. what a hassle to get that 20

Ah I forgot about Byzantium! But still, except for them the Polynesian early navy can be quite powerful, and I always make sure to establish my navy much earlier on than I typically do when playing them. Being able to have Galeass ships cross into ocean tiles is quite powerful. Overall though, I would really love to see Polynesia get a decent buff. Their UA is fine, but the UU and UB really need some extra oomph to feel competitive.

 

[ArchyDarky]

I've got a weird question that is kinda relevant. Can the battering ram attack from sea lol? If so, battering rams being covered by galleys could be amazing for an early naval rush.

 

[Crafty Bison]

I've got a weird question that is kinda relevant. Can the battering ram attack from sea lol? If so, battering rams being covered by galleys could be amazing for an early naval rush.

I haven't tried, I assume they can. The problem is that the ability to embark comes a tech line (or 2? i forget) later than rams. It's not at sailing, but the one after. It's also on the opposite side of the tree, and with horse archers in the middle, you'll need to pretty much get through the whole of the era before you're up and running. It also requires you to commit not only to a single era siege weapon and single era mounted unit really early on, but also to build a navy. All of this will seriously delay your only real great period of warfare.

Having said that, the amhibious penalty is massively negated by the fact that siege cs is mostly made up of modifier, and you can start your warfare, add this a little later and still be fairly successful. I should try this to see if it works.


For some other civs, I haven't played Japan in a while, had forgotten bushido applied to the sea as well- will have to give them a go on a naval map.

I wouldn't recommend byzantium for heavy water worlds - natural religious influence is drastically reduced by the distances so if you want to use the UA you'll need to do most of it by GP or missionary, at which point you're losing ground to ethiopia/maya/celts. Dromons are great to get you up and running, and will get you logistics frigates a bit earlier, but cannot win you the game outright.

 

[Rooftrellen]

Yeah but if you start with all your resources on land it's not doing anything till you get your 2nd/3rd city up which can slow you down alot and diminish your early advantage, and even then the extra hammers you do get aren't in your capital. For this reason i consider them a little situational. I do however love how you can play a complete water world, take a big puppet empire and still get the trade route bonus throughout the game, puppets don't usually build harbours

Well, any of the civs are potentially situational. England, for instance, is better on bigger maps. A small map doesn't give them much, due to the extra spy not having as many options and the raw number of turns your ships gain from moving around a bigger map.

Korea isn't as good when ocean separates civs, since they are slower to the ocean than anyone else and not meeting people until a tech later can potentially slow down some RA's and prevent them from getting a few techs faster simply due to not knowing civs when they go back to fill in techs after a beeline. On the other hand, that UU could end the game, period, if everyone is connected by coast.

Tiny islands doesn't give the Ottoman UU's a chance to shine, reducing them to a UA (a good UA for the situation, but still...), while bigger islands allow their big navy and strong military to both take hold of the game.

Strangely enough, I'd say Japan deserves on the list. Though their UA isn't near as good as it used to be, in a naval invasion, it can make a big difference. Ships can't heal while out at war without a promotion or taking a city, so having them fight at full strength even after they get dinged up can help keep the push going (and it's one of the few situations when the Zero looks halfway decent).

I'd probably give Etheopia a spot too. Everyone (except Polynesia) is going to be restricted to fewer cities, so getting more faith from those cities is huge to a religion and land battles often happen near cities and the capital is normally a big more exposed, since there isn't much land outside of cities and capitals are normally coastal, making the UU ever so slightly more useful.

 

[Crafty Bison]

Well, any of the civs are potentially situational. England, for instance, is better on bigger maps. A small map doesn't give them much, due to the extra spy not having as many options and the raw number of turns your ships gain from moving around a bigger map.

Korea isn't as good when ocean separates civs, since they are slower to the ocean than anyone else and not meeting people until a tech later can potentially slow down some RA's and prevent them from getting a few techs faster simply due to not knowing civs when they go back to fill in techs after a beeline. On the other hand, that UU could end the game, period, if everyone is connected by coast.

Tiny islands doesn't give the Ottoman UU's a chance to shine, reducing them to a UA (a good UA for the situation, but still...), while bigger islands allow their big navy and strong military to both take hold of the game.

Strangely enough, I'd say Japan deserves on the list. Though their UA isn't near as good as it used to be, in a naval invasion, it can make a big difference. Ships can't heal while out at war without a promotion or taking a city, so having them fight at full strength even after they get dinged up can help keep the push going (and it's one of the few situations when the Zero looks halfway decent).

I'd probably give Etheopia a spot too. Everyone (except Polynesia) is going to be restricted to fewer cities, so getting more faith from those cities is huge to a religion and land battles often happen near cities and the capital is normally a big more exposed, since there isn't much land outside of cities and capitals are normally coastal, making the UU ever so slightly more useful.

England are better on small maps, as are all domination civs. Fewer caps to take. It's just they can manage larger maps too, unlike many other dom civs. Not a situational civ (unless no water, but that's kind of a prerequisite for the thread). The UA gets ships about quicker, but is also great during the battle (especially in mp), and gives an early settler/worker economic bonus in movement. Neither of these aresignificantly impeded by a small map.
I wouldn't worry about Korea being weak on any map, though they are better at some than others. Very hard to call the best civ in the game (cites civ elimination thread) situational. Also if they're seperated by ocean then it's not tiny islands, probably small continents or bigger landmasses, so there'll still be a couple RA's to have. Anyway, it's only one tech up (no tree converging) and frigates go faster than caravels now, so can match the caravels superior vision.
Ottomans can use UA or UU's depending on map, I'd call them versatile not situational.
I'd count Carthage as the most situational out of all of these (not as much as Polynesia though), but it can be ignored if you re-roll (I don't). As said, i still consider them fairly strong, it's just I've now loaded them a few times expecting a breeze of a start and getting a rude awakening.

I'd agree tall civs work on water - Ethiopia doesn't sound bad at all even though I'm not keen on them generally. Don't like the idea of heavy religion on water at all, though ethiopia wouldcope better than most. Dunno, will have to give it a try.

 

[ArchyDarky]

I haven't tried, I assume they can. The problem is that the ability to embark comes a tech line (or 2? i forget) later than rams. It's not at sailing, but the one after. It's also on the opposite side of the tree, and with horse archers in the middle, you'll need to pretty much get through the whole of the era before you're up and running. It also requires you to commit not only to a single era siege weapon and single era mounted unit really early on, but also to build a navy. All of this will seriously delay your only real great period of warfare.

Can't one just go hunting for huts with warrior and hope for the siege ram upgrade while beelining for embarking? Hit the city with battering ram and finish off with galleys to take it over. It would be funny if it's possible

 

[Uberfrog]

Can't one just go hunting for huts with warrior and hope for the siege ram upgrade while beelining for embarking? Hit the city with battering ram and finish off with galleys to take it over. It would be funny if it's possible

One can, but that's hardly the stuff strategies are made of.

 

[SathingtonWaltz]

One can, but that's hardly the stuff strategies are made of.

Could we make the distinction that it's certainly a tactic one could attempt, but not part of an overall strategy (meaning you would never plan to do so unless it happened)? This might be the first time I've been able to see a clear difference between the two.

 

[ArchyDarky]

Could we make the distinction that it's certainly a tactic one could attempt, but not part of an overall strategy (meaning you would never plan to do so unless it happened)? This might be the first time I've been able to see a clear difference between the two.

I agree, I just like to be silly sometimes.