Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by MarigoldRan, Jun 30, 2019.
With the recent changes to resources, what is the top UU?
Unfortunately (at least it's unfortunate IMO), the only really useful UUs are the ones for super early zerg rushing. So, War carts and Pitati Archers.
In terms of in game impact?
As much as I don't want it to be, I know in my heart that war carts are just completely stupid and unfair and can sack cities before walls even enter the equation, bypassing the entire ram/tower debate. Pre nerf Toa would also be right at the top although they got taken down a few pegs to just being amazing instead of omgbbq power.
In the hands of a Human against the AI, though, it's gonna be the Warak'aq, because if you XP farm enough of them, they are OP all game long. The AI isn't smart enough to use light cav to get them.
In terms of relative power level compared to everything around them, probably Janissary (+5 Half cost muskets with a free promo? Did we think this through?) overall, just because you can run the upgrade card and build swords in a Victor city for +1 promotion, then upgrade for 5 niter and like 30 gold because Janissaries only cost 120 vs swords 90; and get a second promo. So now you have 60, 3 move muskets for virtually pennies.
With the Minas Geraes also in contention for relatively best UU. It's a straight up +10 battleship you can unlock an era early. I can't think of any other unit that has an outright +10 strength bonus in all combat (pre-nerf toa was close.) And it's an era early. Too bad naval combat isn't very meta.
Of these, Pitati Archer, followed closely by War Cart. in my personal opinion, the Minas Gareas. No idea what a few of these are doing on this list. Like, I main Gorgo but the Hoplite is nowhere near being a top UU in my opinion.
Pray them into existence
I believe Marigold's reasoning is roughly along the lines that a Hoplite, with it's +10 for being next to a hoplite, is kind of like a no iron swordsman that is cheaper.
Only problem is that weakness to actual swords, and the fact that something the Ngao exists. Hoplites upgrade to pikes and that's not something anyone wants their army made out of.
Archers are strong but can't take cities on their own.
When a Jaguar Warrior turns into 4 or 5 builders which turns into 2 or 3 districts why is there a discussion about this?
In the strict sense of early rush, a lot of people are turned off by the jaguar costing 65 instead of 40, making them harder to mass up and the extra time spent building one delays your first settler or builder a few turns.
Whereas a Pitati costs 70 to an archer's 60, but Nubia has Ta-Seti giving them a free +50% production speed on ranged; The warcart only costs 55, so both units are effectively cheaper, stronger, and faster than a jaguar. Head to head aztecs lose to these two civs in the opening turns. Obviously if you go find some other civ's citizens to sacrifice to Quetzalcoatl, and knock on nubia's door with 6 luxes boosting you, then it's another situation entirely. But literally no one can take on the Aztecs once they've hulked out on 2 continents of luxuries, so I guess it's a small trade off.
But the weakness to swords is more than balanced by the bonus against cav. The AI likes to spam chariots in the early game since it's resourceless..
I wouldn't say they are the strongest, but I believe the Persian Immortal belongs on the list. Extra melee strength archers that can capture cities and have the choice to melee or ranged attack depending on which action will serve you better? Definitely should be in the discussion.
A solo Jaguar can take a base city by itself if it is undefended. 2 can take a defended city. Other Civs will need 3 warriors. 130 cost versus 120 and if you run into serious defense I have taken out 3 Ai warriors with a single Jaguar many times by parking it on a hill and or forest.
I know jags are killing machines - I prefer aztec over nubia and sumer - but in fairness, you could spend 110 and have 2 warcarts that go faster and hit even harder. That speed is really crucial for being able to blitz cities. With the ram nerf, though, they really fall off once you have walls. Jags don't fall off as much, esp since a 1-lux Battlecry jag can match a sword in offensive strength.
Both of these units will get picked apart by pitati, but strong + fast archers are something we don't talk about. I thought for sure they learned their lesson in civ5 with the camel archer. Nope. Too bad they couldn't give china the chu-ko-nu again instead of the glorified firework. Double shot xbow... that would be an even more terrifying version of the Warak'aq...
off-topic but the mispelling of "Warak'aq" triggers me so damn' hard.
Also, lmfao @ Marigold including Conqs because he's the only person ever to like them <3
Anyway, I voted Jags. War Carts/Pitatis are arguably better, I guess but Jags remain relevant for a longer timer period AND tie in with the other bonuses the Aztecs receive. Definitely more of a full package imo.
Tlingit? They can't even control the sea otter population here in SE Alaska In all seriousness I have nothing against my Tlingit friends (besides not taking out more otters and sea lions).
Conqs are great! They're as strong as infantry but don't require oil.
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