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[RD] Toronto van attack

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by God of Kings, Apr 25, 2018.

  1. God of Kings

    God of Kings Ruler of all heads of state

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  2. Evie

    Evie Pronounced like Eevee

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    I just love watching the medias (and some security people) all going "We can't be sure what the motivation is, maybe it's mental illness?"

    If someone went and posted "Death to the infidels and the Great Satan! The Jihad has begun! Allah is great!" on FAcebook just before killing ten people, nobody would question their motivation. But here we have an equally clear statement (that some press outlet have nonetheless labeled "enigmatic"), just for a different ideology, and suddenly "It's a mystery" and "We're not sure whether there's any ideological underpinning to the attack".

    It's like it's hard to say that the motivation was a radical misogynist ideology that blames women (and men successful with women) for their own perceived inadequacy, and that (in its more extreme forms) advocate violence against women (and against men who get along with women) as a mean of "getting even". Even when the attacker stated it as plainly as he possibly could.
     
  3. Synsensa

    Synsensa Warlord Retired Moderator

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    There was that one "journalist" who outright publicly said they would have preferred the killer been a Jihadist because it'd make their life easier.

    :thumbsup:
     
    Lexicus likes this.
  4. Arwon

    Arwon Show me your moves

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    I think a lot of people (including the police who called it mental illness) are missing that this "incel" thing is a full blown, messed up, political ideology these people have built up around what can only be described as a pretty toxic form of masculinity (the patriarchal belief that access to women's bodies defines masculinity and self-worth), and are actively using to recruit the alienated and vulnerable. It's one part of the broader current of the way the worst people on the internet are radicalising themselves and each other.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2018
    inthesomeday likes this.
  5. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Warlord

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    TIL incel, chad and stacy
     
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  6. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    Hm... The FB post does seem very bizarre. I mean, if you wanted to announce you are about to kill people, would you really speak of web memes like chad and stacy? :p

    And Sergeant fourchan :lol:
     
  7. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Warlord

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    I think that that ideology is deeply ingrained in our culture. The new thing is the extremism of it...... fitting a society with less social cohesion

    A jealous dad incel with his stacy daughter and chad boyfriend ?

    Schermopname (1451).png
     
    Lexicus likes this.
  8. red_elk

    red_elk Chieftain

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    It's not hard to say, but may be it would be better not to popularize his views. It won't help anybody, only attract more people to this so-called ideology.
     
  9. inthesomeday

    inthesomeday Immortan

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    I think incel-ism has probably reached the point where educating the general public will do more good than harm.
     
    Arwon likes this.
  10. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

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    Is it much different from talking about analog memes like Allah and Jesus?

    Yes, this is a genre of photo that demonstrates pretty well how completely insane our notions masculinity make people...
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2018
  11. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo https://thespacecadetblog.com/

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    What are Stacy and Chad?
     
  12. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    Just google Chad/Stacy. I think Stacy memes aren't postable in CFC, and many Chad ones have swearing.
     
    Hrothbern likes this.
  13. Evie

    Evie Pronounced like Eevee

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    Stacy are the girls who refuse to have sex with the incels. Chads are the guys the Stacys have sex with.
     
  14. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    Close, but not quite. Betty also refuses sex with the incels. That is why they are incels. Stacy is the porn-star looking girl, more or less. (that is the meme, anyway).
    And Chad has sex with everyone.
     
  15. Broken_Erika

    Broken_Erika Nothing

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    So Chad is JFK and JFK is Chad?
    and Bill Clinton is Chad?:mischief:
     
  16. red_elk

    red_elk Chieftain

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    I remember the times when ideologies were based on economists, sociologists and philosophers books and academic research...
    If Marx was resurrected and saw Chad & Stacy meme as a concept of ideology from XXI century, he would die again.
     
    Yeekim, God of Kings, rah and 4 others like this.
  17. EgonSpengler

    EgonSpengler Warlord

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    A lot of the categorization of murders and mass attacks has to do with who the perpetrator is and who the victims are. Of course there's some overlap between a "hate crime" and a "terrorist attack" - some incidents would obviously be both - but it may be interesting to see which attacks are labeled as one and which are labeled as the other.

    From FBI.gov:
    That's the United States, of course, not Canada.

    A related story I heard on a podcast just last weekend, before the Toronto attack, actually used these same two incidents cited by the FBI to illustrate media bias in the U.S. I don't remember the precise numbers, but I think the review of the media coverage of the two attacks found that the attack by the Pakistani-Americans received something like 4-5 times as much media coverage as the attack by the white members of the "Patriot" movement.
     
  18. Bamspeedy

    Bamspeedy Drinking with Obama

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    The one attack killed 14, the other attack killed 2. Yeah, it makes sense the one that killed 14 got 4-5 times the coverage.
    Not to say the bias doesn't exist, but that example doesn't show it.
     
    SS-18 ICBM and Farm Boy like this.
  19. warpus

    warpus In pork I trust

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    If we want to help these people, we first have to understand them. Right now most people don't understand them or even know that they exist. IMO it's a good thing to share more information about these "incels" and what they believe. How else are we going to figure out ways to get them the help they need? A lot of these guys seem to have genuine mental problems, and some of them just seem to be down on their luck. There is a lot of hate in the movement, or whatever you want to call it, but we should be looking to pull people out of it, and make sure that others don't get sucked into it in the future, instead of ridiculing them, which is probably how they turned into incels in the first place

    This guy here though.. what a coward. I've read that he might be on the spectrum and might have Asbergers.. I have no idea if that's true or not, but to kill 10 people and almost a lot more... and then to try to commit suicide by getting a cop to shoot you? Come on... If you want to kill yourself, just kill yourself dude, that should be 100% your right. Taking out others as well? People you don't even know? I can't think of a more cowardly action.

    A lot of people are surprised that this guy didn't end up getting shot by the cops. Yeah, okay, I sort of get that, we're used to seeing American media on TV and the sort of stuff that goes down there. This should be the norm though! This cop was just doing his job. Yeah, he did his job very well, he should be commended for that, he wasn't even called on the scene and was just in the area and stepped up and did his job, from what I read. He is even now telling people to not call him a hero, he says he was just doing his job. That should be the norm! Cops should not be killing suspects so frequently, or even shooting at them.

    A couple years ago the Toronto Police Service started training their cops a bit more to de-escalate these situations. I forget exactly why, but I think there were a couple situations where people died or something, and there was some outrage. So the cops updated their training methods, and I guess this is one of the results.

    So yeah, this should be normal! People shouldn't be saying: "WOW! What an amazing cop". That's how this is supposed to work. This is the work cops sign up to do, and this is how they're supposed to be doing it.

    As for anything else related to this.. I feel for the people of Toronto.. I am there all the time on weekend trips, and I used to live very close to where this happened. From what I read, I lived a 3-5 min walk from where this started. That was a while ago, when I was on an internship, but.. it just makes it feel more real, you know? Like it happened not only in your own country, but also in a place you're familiar with. In your own backyard.

    So yeah, how do we prevent more of this happening in the future? It looks to me like this guy just snapped. He wasn't happy with life at all, and seems to have had a lot of messed up ideas about women in his head. From what I read these incels feel worthless, like nobody cares about them, like they are not real men because they don't know how to talk to women.. If we don't figure out a way to help these people this is going to happen again. It's easy to make fun of them and ridicule them, but that just makes things worse, not better.
     
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  20. red_elk

    red_elk Chieftain

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    I know the place too, there is a subway station and a bus terminal. Been there several times.
    And yeah, great job by the cop. Regardless if he was just doing his job, he was risking his life and this should be appreciated.
     
    shadowplay likes this.

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