total newb about to snap disc out of anger!

[snodog778]

i played civ rev and loved it so i picked up civ 4. now with civ rev being my only back ground im pretty lost. two big things seem to always hurt me.

1) people get mad about over crowding and become very unhappy very quick.
2) and what are the factors of an early game that would effect the maintenance cost in each place? does it vary buy upkeep cost of troops stationed there??

mainly help me stop the overcrowding and keeping people happy. i use the avoid growth button, but dont i want growth? i cant build clay huts or something for them can i??

 

[PieceOfMind]

i played civ rev and loved it so i picked up civ 4. now with civ rev being my only back ground im pretty lost. two big things seem to always hurt me.

Civ4 is a much more complicated game than civ rev from what I've heard, so try not to bring too many expectations from civ rev to Civ4.

1) people get mad about over crowding and become very unhappy very quick.

People call this the "happy cap". Especially early in the game when you don't have access to many happy resources, if any, managing happiness is an important part of the game. Try heading for the civic Hereditary Rule (available with Monarchy) - it allows you to use garrison units to increase the happy cap in each city so you can allow your key cities to grow larger.

There are various buildings and civics that also give happiness. I think there's an article called "Ways into happiness", written by Cabert I think. See if you can find that. EDIT: Here it is http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=189559

2) and what are the factors of an early game that would effect the maintenance cost in each place? does it vary buy upkeep cost of troops stationed there??

Distance from your capital and number of cities are the main things that affect the amount of maintenance. Number of troops has no effect on the city maintenance whatsoever. However if you have a lot of units you will be paying unit upkeep for your units from your empire's treasury. A certain number of units get free upkeep but after that it gets more expensive if you want to keep a huge army.

Code Of Laws is an important tech because it allows you to build Courthouses. Courthouses are one of the most important buildings in the game because they cut each city's maintenance in half - necessary if you want to expand to more than just a few cities.

To make sure maintenance does not cripple you, you'll need to make sure you do not expand too fast (building cities) until you have the infrastructure and techs to ensure your economy can handle it. Courthouses, the +1 trade routes that come with Currency, the cottages you can build with Pottery, etc. If you are running out of money you can consider building more cottages and make sure you work them so they will eventually become towns; towns net you quite a lot of commerce but take a while to grow.

mainly help me stop the overcrowding and keeping people happy. i use the avoid growth button, but dont i want growth? i cant build clay huts or something for them can i??

Most players advise against ever using the Avoid Growth button because you're more likely to accidentally forget you left it on and wonder why your city never grew beyond size 4 and it's the year 1600AD already.

Try using the slavery civic, available with Bronze Working, and if you grow one or two past the happy cap, just "whip" them into a building or unit. If you opt to use the whip, just don't do it on the first turn of putting hammers towards something, as you pay an extra penalty for doing so. Rush things on the second turn (or later) of the build.

 

[Willem]

1) people get mad about over crowding and become very unhappy very quick.

When they say it's too crowded it doesn't mean what you think. As mentioned each city has a Happy Cap, depending on the level you play at. For Noble it's 4 citizens. After that point you'll start seeing unhappy citizens, and you'll get more and more of them as the city continues to grow. Once you start adding luxuries and happiness buildings, like a Temple, those unhappy people will become productive again. It's just a game mechanic to put some restrictions on city growth that you have to overcome. It doesn't mean that you actually need to create more room, which alot of people seem to think.

 

[Supr49er]

snodog778,

I recommend reading:
Sulla's Civilization IV Walkthrough
Sisiutil's Strategy Guide for Beginners
War Academy

And, welcome to the Forums.

 

[snodog778]

so there is no way i can ever reduce the amount of people mad about crowding, nor can i ever stop that number from growing. all i can do is make more happy people by stationing troops there and having monarchy and stuff like that. also the same must be true for heathy people. all i can do to make that go down is to destroy jungles.

as long as i can feed every one should i not build farms and focus more on production so i can actually build stuff before my population grows too much? its not like they save extra food do they? they use it as an excuse to grow correct??

 

[Willem]

so there is no way i can ever reduce the amount of people mad about crowding, nor can i ever stop that number from growing.

No, it's part of the game's mechanics. At various stages of a city's growth there'll be a new unhappy person.

all i can do is make more happy people by stationing troops there and having monarchy and stuff like that.

Stationing troops only works if you use the Hereditary Rule civic. But you can also hook up/trade for luxury resources, build certain buildings like Temples etc. or adjust the culture slider once you research Drama. Just having a religion will make one citizen happy. Once you get a handle on it, it's not really that hard to keep everyone happy.

also the same must be true for heathy people. all i can do to make that go down is to destroy jungles.

No, there's more. Health has it own resources, like Corn, Cows etc. Plus again various buildings will help you keep your cities healthy. That's actually an easier thing to do than keeping them happy.

its not like they save extra food do they? they use it as an excuse to grow correct??

That's right, food is only stored until that brown bar in your city screen is full, then a new citizen comes along with the bar becoming empty again. The key to managing both happiness and health is managing your growth rate. For one thing don't use the city governor, at least if you're using BtS. It's obsessed with working nothing but food tiles so your population will sky rocket in no time. I always pull some citizens off food production and have them work mines and cottages etc. I try to have no more than a 2-3 food surplus each turn so I can more easily manage my city's growth. I've sometimes seen the governor have a surplus of 5-6 which is going to cause happy/ healthy problems in no time.

 

[snodog778]

Once you start adding luxuries and happiness buildings, like a Temple, those unhappy people will become productive again.

this makes it sound like i CAN reduce my unhappiness instead of just increasing happiness??

 

[snodog778]

just ignore that thanks a ton

 

[Willem]

this makes it sound like i CAN reduce my unhappiness instead of just increasing happiness??

Here's how it works. Every city starts out with a certain number of happy citizens it's allowed. As the city grows you get some people that are unhappy, but still productive and working the land. When the unhappy people become more numerous than the happy ones then you end up with a citizen that refuses to work, yet still consumes food. By adding a resource or a building, you're raising the number of happy people allowed so that the unhappy ones are no longer in the majority, and that "defiant" citizen gets back to work. You still have the same number of unhappy people who claim that "It's too crowded." But since there's more or equal numbers of happy citizens then they continue to work. So you really don't have to worry about unhappiness until you get one of those defiant citizens, or you're just about to with happy/unhappy having the same numbers.

 

[oilnwater]

also when you have a really awesome city with like 3 special food resources (like seafood, wheat, pigs and stuff) and your pop is super-exploding, if you are running slavery, you can slave away a good bit of your angry pop by building something important and pressing the up-arrow button in the city screen. extra angry pop- gone. only recommended situationally.

 

[Willem]

You don't need a city with 3 resources for that work, any city will be fine to do it in. You have to be careful though as whipping causes unhappiness for a certain number of turns. If you don't time thing right you may end up making the situation worse.

 

[Joshua368]

One last thing to keep in mind is that there is one way to directly deal with unhappiness... the Globe Theatre national wonder (available at drama) will remove all unhappiness from one city, so you can put that in a high-food city or something for easier growth. Keep in mind you can only have two national wonders per city though...

The Charismatic trait (if you're playing Warlords or Beyond the Sword) can make things easier as well, with an automatically higher happy cap.

 

[SirDrake]

so there is no way i can ever reduce the amount of people mad about crowding, nor can i ever stop that number from growing. all i can do is make more happy people by stationing troops there and having monarchy and stuff like that. also the same must be true for heathy people. all i can do to make that go down is to destroy jungles.

Point of clarification:

In other versions of Civ, you had Happy, Unhappy, and Content citizens.

But in Civ IV, you should not count the happy & unhappy faces as representing some count of citizens. Rather, consider it a count of happiness and unhappiness.

If happy > unhappy (or equal), then your citizens are taken care of. The margin does not matter.

If unhappy > happy, then the margin of difference will be the number of citizens who are non-productive.

Example: You have a population 9 city (+9 ) and are meddling with war (+2 ) for a total of +11 . From your difficulty level, luxury resources, and buildings you have a total of +13 . In that case, all of your citizens are happy (and working).

Example 2: You have a population 8 city (+8 ) with only +6 (from various sources). In that case, you have two angry I-refuse-to-work citizens (not eight).

Help any?

Cheers,
J

 

[Willem]

Point of clarification:

In other versions of Civ, you had Happy, Unhappy, and Content citizens.

But in Civ IV, you should not count the happy & unhappy faces as representing some count of citizens. Rather, consider it a count of happiness and unhappiness.

If happy > unhappy (or equal), then your citizens are taken care of. The margin does not matter.

If unhappy > happy, then the margin of difference will be the number of citizens who are non-productive.

Right. I still tend to think in terms of the old way of looking at it. Another way to see it, everyone has things they like or dislike about the society they are living in. If the things they dislike outnumber what they appreciate, then they become angry and stop producing.