Tour de France 2009

[thetrooper]

A question for you all:

What makes Alberto Contador a great ITT cyclist?

I can understand why Cancellara and Wiggins are good...

 

[J-man]

He's very good at time trails and good in time stages. That's necessary to win the Tour. You don't need to have sprint capability.

 

[thetrooper]

ITT - Individual Time Trial

So I repeat, what makes Contador so good at ITT?

 

[J-man]

I thought you meant international tournament or something...

I've heard he has a very good aerobic capacity. He can transport a lot of oxygen to his muscles.

 

[thetrooper]

Yeah, must be aerobic capacity. I'd like to see his values and compare them to people like Bjørn Dæhlie and Miguel Indurain (both 96 mL O2 per kg (bodyweight) per minute) and Said Aouita (93).

 

[El Koeno]

It´s also a mental thing. He really wanted to win today, and gave everything. Afterwards he said he had been beaten by Cancellara so many times in downhills, he did not want to have that happen today.

Why he wanted to beat Cancellara is beyond me, but I guess he thought he'd be quicker than Schlecks anyway, and by winning the ITT he'd proof to Armstrong who's boss.

 

[dutchfire]

Also, he took most of his time on the mountain (his speciality), while he lost to Cancellara downhill. And I think Cancellara might have been a bit tired, he's had to do a lot of work for the Schlecks.

 

[J-man]

Bye the way, about the aerobic capacity (VO2max).
Greg LeMond more or less suggested that Contador has used performance enhancing drugs. Based on a calculation that Contador had a VO2max of 99.5 on his ascent to Verbier (last Sunday's stage).

Cyclingnews.com has redone the calculations and finds a VO2max value of 80 mL/kg/min. (These calculations are more of an estimate) This is lower then Lance Armstrong (83.5 according to wikipedia) Indurain (88) and (ironically) Greg Lemond (92.5) Also according to wikipedia.

 

[El Koeno]

What a nice finish today. I don't think anyone expected Cavendish to pull this off. Rabobank certainly didn't... Armstrong managed to take a couple of seconds. Who know, combined with the time he take in the cross winds in the first week, it might be enough to get him in the third spot, based on cleverness.

 

[Irish Caesar]

Looks like it's all over. Not a bad little stage today... I was surprised just how evenly matched the contenders were up the mountain.

I've been impressed with Wiggins and Nibali this year, since I don't remember them from other Tours. Hat is also off to Kloden, that guy has been a tank.

It´s also a mental thing. He really wanted to win today, and gave everything. Afterwards he said he had been beaten by Cancellara so many times in downhills, he did not want to have that happen today.

Why he wanted to beat Cancellara is beyond me, but I guess he thought he'd be quicker than Schlecks anyway, and by winning the ITT he'd proof to Armstrong who's boss.

He hasn't been a bad time trialist, though, has he? He ran a pretty respectable time trial last time he won. Makes sense to me that someone who can climb well would time well, I'm surprised the Schlecks don't time well by comparison.

Greg LeMond more or less suggested that Contador has used performance enhancing drugs.

He's said the same about Armstrong, too. Maybe he should keep his mouth shut and mind his business; the Tour has a proud history of booting your sorry saddle out of the race along with your team if they catch you.

 

[dutchfire]

Wow, that wasn't a sprint, no one even got close to Cavendish. Pure pwnage

 

[thetrooper]

Yeah, I told you so...

Hushovd made a big mistake there as he ended up too close to the fence trailing two Milram guys. I don't think he could've matched Cav today anyway - so don't attack me on that

Congrats to all yerseys!

And a belated gratulation to Rabobank yesterday - a miserable tour all in all for that team.

The good: Cavendish, Contador, Hushovd, Pelizotti, Schleck brothers and the old man himself.

The bad: Sastre, Evans, Rabobank and Boonen.

The ugly: placeholder for riders caught when everything gets analyzed.

No dope so far?!?

That's good... Almost too good to be true, eh?

 

[J-man]

No dope so far?!?

That's good... Almost too good to be true, eh?

Yeah, that does sound to good to be true. It can still happen but I assume the riders have stopped using Cera, since it can be detected since 2007. Maybe there are now using a new substance that can't be detected.

 

[thetrooper]

Anyone using Cera will be caught - happened to Di Luca after Giro d'Italia. I guess that the tests are quite time-consuming. There are certainly a new generation of substances out there, but as I've said previously in this thread, the riders look more exhausted after the harder stages this year compared to previous ones. There is one exception but he is innocent until proven guilty.

Edit: and thanks for digging up some info on VO2(max) J-man.

 

[Darkness]

Who would've thought that the most astute cycling observation from an American sports journalist about this years Tour de France would be SI's Peter King (who covers football, not cycling)....

"Armstrong Third in Tour de France.'' It's a great accomplishment that a man can sit out of such a competitive sport and then return as one of the oldest men in the race and finish third in the biggest bike race in the world. But as a teammate, Lance Armstrong strikes me as more Manny Ramirez than Tom Brady.

On the day when Astana teammate Alberto Contador virtually clinched the 2009 Tour de France title -- quite precisely, minutes after the stage was over and Contador all but copped the Tour -- Armstrong announced on his website, on a Twitter page and on a corporate website that he was forming a new team for 2010 in conjunction with RadioShack. How distasteful. How selfish.

Why couldn't Armstrong wait a few days? This day was a day to congratulate Contador and give the champ his due; instead, the New York Times (and I'm sure papers and media outlets around the world) focused on Armstrong forming a new team in that day's story about the Tour, rather than on Contador.

I've been browsing some US-based sports websites during the TdF and all (SI, ESPN, FOXsports, CBSsports) were only focussed on Lance Armstrong. Alberto Contador, Andy Schleck and everyone else really was just an afterthought. Pretty depressing level of sports journalism, IMHO.

But King hit it spot on: Armstrong = great champion, but selfish man and louzy teammate.
And still, even though Americans will never agree to this, not the best cyclist ever. That title remains with the Cannibal...

 

[El Koeno]

Anyone using Cera will be caught - happened to Di Luca after Giro d'Italia. I guess that the tests are quite time-consuming. There are certainly a new generation of substances out there, but as I've said previously in this thread, the riders look more exhausted after the harder stages this year compared to previous ones. There is one exception but he is innocent until proven guilty.

Edit: and thanks for digging up some info on VO2(max) J-man.

I think the detection rates are still pretty lousy. I've heard than any protein analysis is hard to do, and likely to fail. They're probably focusing on riders with anomalies in their blood values, but even then it'll take some time to catch cheaters. I don't believe this sport is clean, but as long as I'm entertained, I'm satisfied.

 

[Serutan]

Who would've thought that the most astute cycling observation from an American sports journalist about this years Tour de France would be SI's Peter King (who covers football, not cycling)....

Very sad but true. The Versus (nee OLN) coverage, despite flatly stating that
there was tension within Astana, and giving other riders their due, was nauseatingly
fawning in their coverage of Lance. How he was a great teammate - Translation : it was obvious he didn't have enough to beat Contador, so it was now
"We have raised the chocorat from 30 grams to 25 grams" time.

But King hit it spot on: Armstrong = great champion, but selfish man and louzy teammate.

Lance has shown over time that he has quite the petty/vindictive streak, the timing
of the new team announcement being just the latest example of that. And it was also obvious that he was never going to do anything that would jeopardize his chance at a podium position (i.e. helping out Kloden).

And still, even though Americans will never agree to this, not the best cyclist ever. That title remains with the Cannibal...

This one does.

 

[J-man]

I think the detection rates are still pretty lousy. I've heard than any protein analysis is hard to do, and likely to fail. They're probably focusing on riders with anomalies in their blood values, but even then it'll take some time to catch cheaters. I don't believe this sport is clean, but as long as I'm entertained, I'm satisfied.

I thought that Cera can be detected because of some 'marker' that has been added to it by the company who makes it. I could be wrong though.

Cera is hard to detect in urine but (I assume) easy to detect in blood. Perhaps they should take blood samples instead of urine sample on suspected cyclists.

 

[Formaldehyde]

On the day when Astana teammate Alberto Contador virtually clinched the 2009 Tour de France title -- quite precisely, minutes after the stage was over and Contador all but copped the Tour -- Armstrong announced on his website, on a Twitter page and on a corporate website that he was forming a new team for 2010 in conjunction with RadioShack. How distasteful. How selfish.

Yeah. How rude of him to use the publicity of his own incredible finish to help him with next year's effort.

Why couldn't Armstrong wait a few days? This day was a day to congratulate Contador and give the champ his due; instead, the New York Times (and I'm sure papers and media outlets around the world) focused on Armstrong forming a new team in that day's story about the Tour, rather than on Contador.

That's not going to happen no matter what Armstrong does or doesn't do. Most people in the US could care less about any rider in the event who wasn't American. It's not a coincidence that a second-rate cable channel provides all the coverage of the race.

Ironically, Armstrong generating even more press in this way is actually helping Contodor and the rest of sport of cycling by keeping it in the public eye a bit longer than it otherwise would have been.

 

[El Koeno]

I thought that Cera can be detected because of some 'marker' that has been added to it by the company who makes it. I could be wrong though.

Cera is hard to detect in urine but (I assume) easy to detect in blood. Perhaps they should take blood samples instead of urine sample on suspected cyclists.

Hmm not sure. I remember that Roche indeed helped the anti-doping agencies to be be able to detect Cera. But I'm not sure about the detection rates.

Yeah. How rude of him to use the publicity of his own incredible finish to help him with next year's effort.

Except that he hadn't finished yet. The race was still on, and the rider he was supposed to be riding for just did a great time trial. It was a really pathetic move by Lance.