TR 2.3 feedback

[Freakwave]

Just thinking, about those notifications of shortages. I was thinking maybe the game sees a resource as one and not as one of three for instance you have available and therefore you get those build stops?

The sacred band combat animation seems not complete when attacking or doesnt show all

revolts are annoying(slaves/serfdom), you always win anyway if you plan it right. Reserves in the right places etc. It becomes a recurrent thing. with slavery you can capture more slaves with serfdom its just annoying, can this be made optional? or better, have some sort of revolution mod in.

warning for age change since the one unhappy face in the tech screen would be great.

I was thinking, can damaged ships get a reduced speed?

Punic heavy swordsman more costly than man at arms?

ships cannot seem to heal on the coast you need a harbor/port for that?

Whats with the majors office +- 1 happy face, you get either a extra unhappy or one less unhappy?

ai very late to colonize in warlords

production automation and avoid growth from the city popupscreen like using alt to set repeat orders

civil liberties has democracy spoken word but i think liberalism tekst: "Any society that would give up a little liberty" etc.

game hangs in the middle of a turn when going to next unit, i just completed a xebec when it said cant continue to build it in the same city that just build one.

take the years shown in the top bar seriously since speed is realistic?


My privateer attacked a ship in a enemy stack and won, after that the animation(of the privateer) is frozen over the enemy stack, when i move another privateer over it it attacks it as if it wasnt owned by me.
Moreover the selection cursor is not on the unit, when i hit space the animation and the cursor are in the same location, however the enemy is still there so it should withdraw to its former position before it attacked.

tech transfer and mercantilism is it non existant?

Goody huts are protected on barbarian continents, regular units only yield more barbs but scouts cannot

attack so there you go scout should be able to attack barbarians imo.

barbarian techs are pretty up to date is this realistic?

My game hanged for 15 secs when i built a city on a sulphur resource coincidence?

cuirassier not upgradeable to hussar?

village giving a warrior at barb continent seems silly in the later game.

when i build a courthouse -50, jail -25 and a major -25 = -100 = 0? I should have no maintainance exept for maybe inflation?

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

Just thinking, about those notifications of shortages. I was thinking maybe the game sees a resource as one and not as one of three for instance you have available and therefore you get those build stops?

We've almost solved this one for the next version.

The sacred band combat animation seems not complete when attacking or doesnt show all

Will check; although, it is strange, since this is a stock Warlords animation.

revolts are annoying(slaves/serfdom), you always win anyway if you plan it right. Reserves in the right places etc. It becomes a recurrent thing. with slavery you can capture more slaves with serfdom its just annoying, can this be made optional? or better, have some sort of revolution mod in.

Revolts can pretty much devastate you if you're at war, or short on troops for any other reason. Anyway, we're thinking of making this optional. Remember though, that this is also free peacetime XP for the troops!

warning for age change since the one unhappy face in the tech screen would be great.

Hard to implement, since there are potentially many techs one can research to switch an era.

I was thinking, can damaged ships get a reduced speed?

Nice idea. Will ponder.

Punic heavy swordsman more costly than man at arms?

We did lots of unit stats rebalance for the next version, and this will also get our eye when we reach Carthage.

ships cannot seem to heal on the coast you need a harbor/port for that?

Yeah, I think so. At least, they will heal VERY slowly outside cities.

Whats with the majors office +- 1 happy face, you get either a extra unhappy or one less unhappy?

+ one unhappy face. An interface quirk - negative happiness is displayed as unhappiness, hence the confusion.

ai very late to colonize in warlords

Not much to do about that one, except for switching to BtS and hoping it does better there.

production automation and avoid growth from the city popupscreen like using alt to set repeat orders

Not sure I understood that.

civil liberties has democracy spoken word but i think liberalism tekst: "Any society that would give up a little liberty" etc.

Will check.

game hangs in the middle of a turn when going to next unit, i just completed a xebec when it said cant continue to build it in the same city that just build one.

Yeah, aware of this bug; will likely be fixed for the next version - for now you can safely ignore it. Even if it says you can't, you really can.

take the years shown in the top bar seriously since speed is realistic?

Mileage varies greatly depending on a particular map. Research speeds generally tweaked upwards for the next version.

My privateer attacked a ship in a enemy stack and won, after that the animation(of the privateer) is frozen over the enemy stack, when i move another privateer over it it attacks it as if it wasnt owned by me.
Moreover the selection cursor is not on the unit, when i hit space the animation and the cursor are in the same location, however the enemy is still there so it should withdraw to its former position before it attacked.

Will check the whole business.

tech transfer and mercantilism is it non existant?

You only need open borders for tech transfer; that isn't affected by mercantilism.

Goody huts are protected on barbarian continents, regular units only yield more barbs but scouts cannot

attack so there you go scout should be able to attack barbarians imo.

Not sure I understand the problem

barbarian techs are pretty up to date is this realistic?

Yep, most "barbarians" in history were using contemporary military advances. But you will see their cities in a much more rundown state than these of their civilized neighbors.

My game hanged for 15 secs when i built a city on a sulphur resource coincidence?

Most likely.

cuirassier not upgradeable to hussar?

Nope. Cuirassier is heavy cav, hussar is light cav. The two lines aren't interupgradeable.

village giving a warrior at barb continent seems silly in the later game.

Not much we can do about it.

when i build a courthouse -50, jail -25 and a major -25 = -100 = 0? I should have no maintainance exept for maybe inflation?

We'll likely lower the values. There's far too much money to be made late in game. But jails already don't lower maintenance (and never did) - so you can't get 0 maintenance.

 

[Freakwave]

1) We've almost solved this one for the next version.


2 ) Revolts can pretty much devastate you if you're at war, or short on troops for any other reason. Anyway, we're thinking of making this optional. Remember though, that this is also free peacetime XP for the troops!


3) Not sure I understood that.


4) You only need open borders for tech transfer; that isn't affected by mercantilism.


5) Not sure I understand the problem


6) We'll likely lower the values. There's far too much money to be made late in game. But jails already don't lower maintenance (and never did) - so you can't get 0 maintenance.

1) thats great since that seemed to be the biggest problem?

2) True free xp but you can get very high lvl units without having to have fought wars.
I believe fighting barbarian in BtS wil only yield 10 xp max, that seems much fairer. Also since you need a high lvl unit to build westpoint, which is easy now, just keep one safe in order to build it. but this maybe then fixed for TR for Bts.

3) Well when your turn starts you get city popups for cities that have finished building their qeue. Would be nice to have more buttons available instead of going into the city sceen and select avoid growth for instance. Not all options are available from the popupscreen that are available in the cityscreen.

4) I see but a bit gamey to just break the open borders in order to stay (far) ahead. You can still trade rescources without having an open border. Trade based tech transfer should also be a big factor imo. Or when at war with a civ that has gunpowder you can capture some guns to use them yourself. arms trade im thinking colonisation

5) On unexplored barbarian continents goody huts are protected by warriors and archers.
a scout can only defend and they are used to explore and get better results from goody huts but they cant reach those huts since they are protected.

6) my mistake the the jail lowers war weariness.

 

[thadian]

I haven't played in a while since warlords (now on bts) but i remember the revolts.

for the player, it's a good thing! you get free exp, so you almost never need to war unless you need expansion. But...

the AI has a hard time handling this, and gets crippled by it. First, it doesn't see the "slave unit" as a "threat". Allow me.

Lets say i have Civ A on my left, the map ends on my north, Civ B on my east, and an ocean south. What the AI does is...

Move all units to border cities with 1-2 soldiers in the remaining cities.
Slaves come. Use soldiers from interior cities to fight.
More come. Cities fall because the "defenders" died fighting slaves!
Units enslaved, gee i think i will use them as extra workers, no need rushing builds now!
-Now the AI is not only using units from sending improper units to attack - but it has too many "workers" that it doesn't know will revolt. and then they will build windmills all over their "towns" then cottage over the windmills etc.

Revolution-mod or something might fit better, and it is great from the player experience - but the AI has no ability to handle the slaves, because it doesn't see them as a threat worth preparing for. Also, it sends the wrong units. Sometimes it lets the "revolter" pillage for multiple turns.

And the pillagers are stupid. I would rather they send one pillager and stack the rest on a forest or hill choke point.

 

[Megatherion]

I've also seen some devastating effects of the revolts the AI didn't seem to be able to handle. In one game the main island of Korea (on a random map) was compeltely bare except for the cities, some of which also fell to the revolters.

This gave me the opportunity to get some xp and save the poor Koreans from being annihilated but I think some AI tweaks might be due (unfortunately I have no idea how to do it).It is not something I'd put on the top of the list of things to do, though, even if it was quite shocking to see Madrid being captured by revolters in just the same game.

As it is, I really enjoy this mod (apart from it crashing to desktop around turn 1000, but that can't be helped, it seems).
I really like the diversity of the civs and their associated units and styles. Makes playing real fun.

Changes I'd recommend, though:
Replace the sulphur ressource by saltpeter or add saltpeter. Sulphur was of course a component of black powder, but it's quite abundant. Saltpetre on the other hand was much rarer and is the actual explosive component of black powder. That's not too bad, though. But sulphur shouldn't be required for a fertilizer factory. That really is saltpetre (or any other nitrate).

I quite liked the model for religions in the Vanilla-Civ version of the mod (some religions couldn't be spread abroad but had other boni). The new way isn't bad, though. I just thought the way you used religion before was more unique.

The AI is sometimes a bit strange, declaring war for fun as it seems: I have open borders with another civ, they're pleased, even got the same religion and suddenly they declare war on me, stay pleased or friendly but refuse to talk to me. It was especially gross in the last game I played. Everyone was pleased with me and one after the other declared war on me. First the Indians came. I sent some troops over, captured a city, gave it back in exchange for peace. Some turns later the Spanish declared war. Same procedure as with the Indians. Even later the Vikings did the same thing in an even more stupid way (sending one Galley and declaring war (even though we had open borders) BEFORE at least unloding the units onto my island. Well, tough luck for them.). And again i had to capture a city and trade it in for peace.
Is there any way to change that stupid behaviour?

 

[Megatherion]

I've also seen some devastating effects of the revolts the AI didn't seem to be able to handle. In one game the main island of Korea (on a random map) was compeltely bare except for the cities, some of which also fell to the revolters.

This gave me the opportunity to get some xp and save the poor Koreans from being annihilated but I think some AI tweaks might be due (unfortunately I have no idea how to do it).It is not something I'd put on the top of the list of things to do, though, even if it was quite shocking to see Madrid being captured by revolters in just the same game.

As it is, I really enjoy this mod (apart from it crashing to desktop around turn 1000, but that can't be helped, it seems).
I really like the diversity of the civs and their associated units and styles. Makes playing real fun.

Changes I'd recommend, though:
Replace the sulphur ressource by saltpeter or add saltpeter. Sulphur was of course a component of black powder, but it's quite abundant. Saltpetre on the other hand was much rarer and is the actual explosive component of black powder. That's not too bad, though. But sulphur shouldn't be required for a fertilizer factory. That really is saltpetre (or any other nitrate).

I quite liked the model for religions in the Vanilla-Civ version of the mod (some religions couldn't be spread abroad but had other boni). The new way isn't bad, though. I just thought the way you used religion before was more unique.

The AI is sometimes a bit strange, declaring war for fun as it seems: I have open borders with another civ, they're pleased, even got the same religion and suddenly they declare war on me, stay pleased or friendly but refuse to talk to me. It was especially gross in the last game I played. Everyone was pleased with me and one after the other declared war on me. First the Indians came. I sent some troops over, captured a city, gave it back in exchange for peace. Some turns later the Spanish declared war. Same procedure as with the Indians. Even later the Vikings did the same thing in an even more stupid way (sending one Galley and declaring war (even though we had open borders) BEFORE at least unloding the units onto my island. Well, tough luck for them.). And again i had to capture a city and trade it in for peace.
Is there any way to change that stupid behaviour?

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

"Pleased" level generally doesn't prevent AIs from declaring wars; the probability is lower, but if you're considered a good target, they'll still do it. "Friendly" keeps some of the more peace-loving leaders from declaring wars upon you altogether (but won't stop real warmongers).

All the old mechanics for religions is still there, you can easily access it from TR-config.ini, and tweak it to your tastes.

As for saltpeter, there are several reasons it has been interchanged with sulfur, the main of them being saltpeter production isn't totally reliant on the natural resource; saltpeter can be synthesised, and most saltpeter used in Europe was manufactured, not mined. Sulfur, conversely, is predominantly extracted from mineral ores (and since XX century, from natural gas). No nation in history has really been hurt by inability to mine saltpeter on its territory.

 

[arcozelo]

Game crashes silently to desktop when ending turn. It has happened a few times during this game, but usually running the game again and continuing from the autosave fixes the issue for some turns. Doesn't work with this particular crash though.

Another issue during this game that i didn't keep a save was that somehow a wonder (shah name) got miraculously pushed into one of my queues with just 1 turn to complete, without me doing anything. One turn the city was building an ordinary building, the next turn shah name shows up from nowhere with 1 turn to complete. After completing the wonder the city goes back to the previous half-built building as normal and the game continues

 

[Freakwave]

What Megatherion has said about revolters taking cities, that would be cool if a new civ would spawn from the revolt and that would be something along the lines of revolution mod. Would be great if something like that was put in. Its now far better than it used to be where AI nations would fall apart from a certain point onwards.

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

No doubt it WOULD be cool, but that would take an immense effort to implement; an effort currently better directed at BtS conversion.

 

[stuestes]

Game crashes silently to desktop when ending turn. It has happened a few times during this game, but usually running the game again and continuing from the autosave fixes the issue for some turns. Doesn't work with this particular crash though.

I'm having the same crashing problem with this game. It originally crashed immediately on launch of a custom game. By changing some of the custom setup options I got into a game, but after 790 BC it crashed and keeps crashing every restart. I get the Windows "send report?" box after the crash.

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

Sounds to me you didn't apply the fixed dll.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6881674&postcount=778

 

[stuestes]

I have downloaded the dll file. What do I do with it?

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

You place it into Warlords/Mods/Total Realism/Assets folder. There should already be one, so you just replace it.

 

[Freakwave]

AI:

Don't know how usefull this since TR will move to BtS is but the AI in a siege behaves poorly. It engages in pointless attacks it cant win, it doenst pillage at least the stack won't but if there is a unit with 2 moves it might as well.

Also it doesnt separate the stack to avoid the crowded trait.

Privateers arent used at all! since the ai has already moved to oligarchy civic.

Oda Nobunaga Japan wasnt being smart with his permanent war against Ghandi, which kills research by not taking advanced civics, or just not fast enough to kill etc.

drakkar, bombard, cannon, all need bronze why cant use iron also?
ship OTL needs bronze aswell. pretty screwed if you dont have bronze
Certainly for the wooden ships its a bit steep requirement.

Will manufacured goods ever become city specific?

You can train a conscript with Proletarian dictatorship, AI will rush it for that
just because the unit is much stronger than the fusiliers that are still
in use, maybe restrict it to the civic(dictatorship) and not the tech?

labor union no happy from clean power plants altough they are
"industrial" too

Would be nice if civics dictate tax settings. I say this because mansa
musa had 95% culture settings, to rush for culture victory i presume,
but he got behind in tech. I attacked him just to make sure he didnt win
which was easy because of said backwardness. Not smart.

Can you make naval mines invisible? And only be visible to
destroyers/corvettes.

propaganda has spoken line " the only thing worse than being talked
about is not being talked about"
but has a hitler quote.

5 years plan is a World Wonder but its more or less socialist/communist
restricted IRL

5year plan, Quantum theory and bletchly park have no pic

tank factory gives xp why not a prod bonus instead. Xp is earned in
battle

Does the crowded trait have a pandemia chance? IRL armies would succumb
to malaria, cholera and other diseases. I Guess in BtS this can be added through events.

Slavery remains popular very late in the game. Maybe a wonder that
abolishes it and gives unhappy faces to other civs that have it?
Or via techs from enlightment onwards each time your civ becomes more
consience.

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

AI:

Don't know how usefull this since TR will move to BtS is but the AI in a siege behaves poorly. It engages in pointless attacks it cant win, it doenst pillage at least the stack won't but if there is a unit with 2 moves it might as well.

We'll perhaps fix it for Warlords 2.4, but no guarantee here.

Also it doesnt separate the stack to avoid the crowded trait.

It should. Will look into that.

Privateers arent used at all! since the ai has already moved to oligarchy civic.

IIRC, it requires Mercantilism, not Oligarchy.

Oda Nobunaga Japan wasnt being smart with his permanent war against Ghandi, which kills research by not taking advanced civics, or just not fast enough to kill etc.

Yeah, AI can be pretty stubborn sometimes, especially before it has the ability to demand gold.

drakkar, bombard, cannon, all need bronze why cant use iron also?
ship OTL needs bronze aswell. pretty screwed if you dont have bronze
Certainly for the wooden ships its a bit steep requirement.

Bronze/copper was an integral part of cannons for a very long time, well into XIX century, because it has some unique properties. So yeah, to have a balanced army, you need BOTH bronze and iron - since some units, like Knights, require iron but not bronze. If you have no bronze, you'll be severely artillery impaired for a long time. Then again, up to this point in game, one can almost always get hold of some - especially if there's a New World.

Will manufacured goods ever become city specific?

What do you mean?

You can train a conscript with Proletarian dictatorship, AI will rush it for that
just because the unit is much stronger than the fusiliers that are still
in use, maybe restrict it to the civic(dictatorship) and not the tech?

Stuff like that is generally cured by introducing more cross-links into the tech tree. Expect less of that to occur in 2.4.

labor union no happy from clean power plants altough they are
"industrial" too

Basically, labor union gets happiness from heavy industry buildings, that require lots of manual labor to operate. High-tech solar and nuclear plants don't need that much workers, most of their personell is highly trained specialists.

Would be nice if civics dictate tax settings. I say this because mansa
musa had 95% culture settings, to rush for culture victory i presume,
but he got behind in tech. I attacked him just to make sure he didnt win
which was easy because of said backwardness. Not smart.

Then again, if you didn't, he might have won. That's a common strategy for human players going for cultural victory too.

Can you make naval mines invisible? And only be visible to
destroyers/corvettes.

Very good idea.

propaganda has spoken line " the only thing worse than being talked
about is not being talked about"
but has a hitler quote.

Checked and it just seems to be that we don't have a voiceover for this quote. So basically it's WAD for now.

5 years plan is a World Wonder but its more or less socialist/communist
restricted IRL

Not exactly, many capitalist countries had those in the first half of XX century. Even Second New Deal falls into this definition. Although this is definitely a very leftist economic move, it was used by market economies. And it worked...

5year plan, Quantum theory and bletchly park have no pic

Thx. Fixed.

tank factory gives xp why not a prod bonus instead. Xp is earned in
battle

Basically it means you're making better and easier to handle tanks, which raises their combat efficiency, abstracted by XP.

Does the crowded trait have a pandemia chance? IRL armies would succumb
to malaria, cholera and other diseases. I Guess in BtS this can be added through events.

Units are currently not affected by pandemics. Good idea for BtS, though.

Slavery remains popular very late in the game. Maybe a wonder that
abolishes it and gives unhappy faces to other civs that have it?
Or via techs from enlightment onwards each time your civ becomes more
consience.

Yeah, slavery is overpowered. Working to fix it.

 

[Freakwave]

I mean to build privateers you need to have monarchy enabled, at that time all civs had olicharcy which remains popular throughout the game aswell. Just an idea. Is it because revolts popup that the ai keeps olicharcy for a new warlord to come sooner?

When you build manufactured goods they become available to your whole civ and not only the city thats build it. Makes it less usefull Apart from the gold bonus, or whatever other boni. Makes for a nicer buildup militarily. with arty and firearms etc

It also makes resources more important even the 7th fish since you can only make so many canned food factories for example.

For the rest of your comments thanks, you learn something new everyday

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

I mean to build privateers you need to have monarchy enabled, at that time all civs had olicharcy which remains popular throughout the game aswell. Just an idea. Is it because revolts popup that the ai keeps olicharcy for a new warlord to come sooner?

Aha, so we have another case of overpowered civic here, namely Oligarchy. I'll look to it; for most civs, Monarchy should be preferable.

When you build manufactured goods they become available to your whole civ and not only the city thats build it. Makes it less usefull Apart from the gold bonus, or whatever other boni. Makes for a nicer buildup militarily. with arty and firearms etc

It also makes resources more important even the 7th fish since you can only make so many canned food factories for example.

And that's how it stays from now on. No more "local" goods. That's how we intended it in the first place.

 

[Kornaki]

Whenever I get a great person, I just get a blank picture with pascal's quote

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

Whenever I get a great person, I just get a blank picture with pascal's quote

Hm... Yes, this happens for some. It even plagued one of our teammembers for a long time. Could you please tell me more specifically about where your civ installation is kept, and where (and how) you installed the mod.