Trade crash and late game problems

[sethos]

Partisans
In the late game, partisans appear at the frontiers of your empire. Their number depends ont the city size.
I've had up to 128 rebels threatening my frontier cities.

There are severals ways to fight them: Stealth Fighter
(try to destroy the rebels on the "hot spot" where they are stacked), bribing or - what I prefer to do -
building a new city in the wilderness.

I send a Stealth Fighter and a spy into that city.
Now the number of appearing partisans will decrease,
so that they are easier to fight.

Trade Crash
At a certain point of the game (if you have a huge empire), trade collapses. Freight payments are about 210 gold, never more.

I think it depends on the number of your cities and your income.

But I believe I've found a way to delay this trade crash:
100% lux, NO capitalization (even with 0 % science I made 1 tech per turn, having more than 200 cities).
You don't need any taxes. You'll have enough money, even without trading.

Perhaps science has an influence on the trade crash phenomenon. With 10% science I had
-1 techs/turn (minus 1!)
Maybe I can delay the trade crash a little bit more by selling off my libraries and universities.

I think the trade crash phenomenon is one of the last secrets of the game.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

For the trade crash, I am guessing you are somewhere in the future tech range.

There is a point where the research cost of techs (in beakers) reverts back to a very low number. I think it might actually reset to 10 and start going up again. Once this happens, the trade payouts are bounded by the max payout rules. Normally delivery bonuses are capped at 2/3 of the cost of the current tech, but when you are below 300b/tech the max payout is 200 + a random amount less than or equal to 10. Thus your big fat payouts will all pay between 200-210 until you can crank out enough techs to get the tech cost back up. luckily the tech costs are so low, you can probably blow through quite a few each turn. I've never encountered this before (I never play deep into the Future Techs), but that is what I recall reading.

 

[Ace]

Tim is correct. Around FT 167 (+/- a few), the beaker requirement resets to 10. If you are getting one tech per turn from science and one per turn from freight deliveries, you will suddenly get 20-30+ techs on one turn. This is quite startling if you don't expect it! Fortunately, in a few turns, the beaker requirement has gone back up so you continue to get the big bonus payouts.

On a slightly different note, be careful as you approach FT 255. If you research FT 256, the counter will reset to zero and you will have lost all 255 FTs!! If you need/want to continue delivering freight, you can do so, but you must set science to zero and be sure you have no scientists working. (In order to get a tech, you must have at least one beaker from science. You cannot get a tech from freight delivery bonus' only.)

 

[sethos]

Thx, TimTheEnchanter And Ace.
I just finsihed a game with more than 190 cities producing more than 12000 beakers a turn.
I hope you allow to publish your replies in my Strategy Guide
[ http://www.sethos.gmxhome.de ]

 

[ElephantU]

I believe the "trade crash" is similar to the problem of your treasury resetting itself when it goes over a certain amount. Civ2 uses fixed-length integers for a lot of its math - 7+1 civs, 255 cities, 2048 units, 32,000 gold, etc. I think the exact number that the FTs reset is when the sum of all the other techs researched (somewhere around 80?) and the current number of FTs hits 255. Were there any techs you had not researched, like Env?

 

[sethos]

@ElephantU
No, I had all techs. FT about 70.
Maybe the program is buggy (-1 advances a turn -- effects???)
In another thread I described that some partisans threatened to bribe one of my cities
and asked for -17.000 gold (minus 17.000!). I was curious to see what would happened, so I paid.
And my treasury grew that amount. A tribute from partisans.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

I hope you allow to publish your replies in my Strategy Guide
[ http://www.sethos.gmxhome.de ]

Certainly.

 

[ElephantU]

In another thread I described that some partisans threatened to bribe one of my cities and asked for -17.000 gold (minus 17.000!). I was curious to see what would happened, so I paid.
And my treasury grew that amount. A tribute from partisans.

I would be willing to bet your treasury was pushing the 32K limit at the time...

 

[sethos]

@ ElephantU
You're right. The demanded about half of my treasury.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

Civ2 uses fixed-length integers for a lot of its math - 7+1 civs, 255 cities, 2048 units, 32,000 gold, etc. I think the exact number that the FTs reset is when the sum of all the other techs researched (somewhere around 80?) and the current number of FTs hits 255.

The exact number of regular techs is 88. Your theory fits Ace's observation that this happens around FT 167.

I have never run into any of these limitations (maybe beacuse I never play below king level except for GOTMs). I am very curious: what happens when you have 255 cities and want to build another? what happens when you have 2048 units and try to build another?

 

[sethos]

You will get a message that no more cities are possible (I've already tested it).
That means, that AI civs can't build cities, too
I think it's the same with the number of units (not yet tested).

 

[Ace]

sethos is correct on both counts. If you try to exceed the unit maximum, you get a message that says no more units can be build until a unit is disbanded. (I don't remember the exact wording, but that is the general idea.)

IIRC, these limits apply to all levels of play, even chieftain.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

Thanks sethos and Ace. I do recall seeing a similar message for units in Civ1. I guess the limit in Civ1 was smaller. The shield box got emptied but instead of a unit you got the message.

 

[bakaneiro]

My max!

 

[Andu Indorin]

Seems I missed this thread during my lengthy absence. ...

On the Trade Crash -- which I termed the "Trade Paradigm Collapse" -- this is actually tied into the research cost for Techs. When the research cost for the next Future Tech exceeds 16,000 beakers, the value of the Freight bonus drops to a nominal value, which I think is: (100 g x commodity modifier) + 1g per ten squares. This new "paradigm" is in effect until the "Tech Rollover" at around 167 or 168, though it can be somewhat higher if you've maximized you're tech gifting potential. With the tech rollover, which resets research back to square one (10 beakers), full trade bonuses kick in again.

On Max Number of Units: 2046 is the maximum number of units allowed to the player and AI civs. Slots 2047 and 2048 presumably are reserved for one barbarian combat unit and one barbarian leader.